Author Topic: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus  (Read 144085 times)

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Littha

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #400 on: August 28, 2011, 02:30:25 AM »
Quote

Specific Exceptions
Some spells specifically counter each other, especially when they have diametrically opposed effects.

ksbsnowowl

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #401 on: August 28, 2011, 02:47:00 AM »
So they only counter and dispel when used in a counterspell action? Which SLA's specifically can't be used for.

So a SLA deeper darkness will still temporarily negate a Daylight spell (and itself), and it will "overpower" 2nd level or lower light spells, but will never be able to dispel a continual flame, because you can't counterspell with it?

Q 113: One last question on light/dark.  Darkness (2nd level) says
Quote
Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.
A continual flame cast as a second level wizard spell would fall in that "higher level light spells are not affected by darkness" category.  Since there is no mention of these two spells temporarily negating each other, does that mean that a continual flame brought into a darkness effect would still function, and there would be a 20 ft radius of bright illumination?
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Echoes

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #402 on: August 28, 2011, 03:16:04 AM »
Does this section I just found change that?
Quote
Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell
To make sure, that line is only talking about direct attempts to prevent someone from casting a given spell?

Sorry, just having a brain fart right now.

You can dispel using SLAs (otherwise having dispel magic as an SLA would be pointless).

Quote
Q 112: Deeper Darkness seems to have a contradictory set of statements concerning negating and/or dispelling Daylight.
Quote
Daylight brought into an area of deeper darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect.

Deeper darkness counters and dispels any light spell of equal or lower level, including daylight
If DD dispells daylight, how can it also merely temporarily negate it?

Maybe I'm not understanding what "counters and dispels any [opposing light/dark] spell of equal or lower level" means.

Counters means that you can counterspell any light/darkness spell with an opposing spell of equal or higher level. Dispel means exactly what it says: if you cast deeper darkness at a light spell, it will remove it. The contradictory text is just weird. I suppose specific overrides general would apply, and thus it would only suppress a daylight spell but dispel any other equal or lower level light spell.

So they only counter and dispel when used in a counterspell action? Which SLA's specifically can't be used for.

Err, no. A dispel is distinctly different from countering, and can be done with SLAs. The bit Littha bolded refers to how some spells can be used as counters despite not fitting the "same spell or dispel magic" rule, such as slow countering haste and vice versa. It doesn't have any bearing on dispelling with SLAs.

Quote
So a SLA deeper darkness will still temporarily negate a Daylight spell (and itself), and it will "overpower" 2nd level or lower light spells, but will never be able to dispel a continual flame, because you can't counterspell with it?

It'll dispel a continual flame just fine (just not daylight, apparently). You're not counterspelling with it - you're using it as a dispel, which is a completely different game mechanic.

Quote
Q 113: One last question on light/dark.  Darkness (2nd level) says
Quote
Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.
A continual flame cast as a second level wizard spell would fall in that "higher level light spells are not affected by darkness" category.  Since there is no mention of these two spells temporarily negating each other, does that mean that a continual flame brought into a darkness effect would still function, and there would be a 20 ft radius of bright illumination?

Hmm? Darkness will dispel a continual flame cast by a Sorcerer or Wizard, but will not affect (and in turn be dispelled by) a continual flame cast by a Cleric. Clerics are just better at making light, apparently.
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #403 on: August 28, 2011, 03:59:06 AM »
Thanks, I think I'm understanding the light/dark interaction now.  So, you can't use a darkness/deeper darkness SLA to prevent someone from casting a light spell, because that would be counterspelling, which you can't do with a SLA.  But, once they have cast their light spell, you can dispel it with your darkness SLA (would this dispelling require a dispel check (1d20+caster level vs DC 11+ caster level) or does it auto-succeed because it is a higher-level darkness spell?)

Q 114: When using a darkness spell to dispel a light spell, do you have to cast it so as to target the other spell? (I'm assuming yes) Or can you cast it so it dispels the light spell and it goes into effect, darkening the area?  ie - does the area of the darkness spell merely overlapping the source of the light cantrip cause it to be dispelled? (I'm going with no, rather it is merely suppressed)

Quote
Q 113: One last question on light/dark.  Darkness (2nd level) says
Quote
Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.
A continual flame cast as a second level wizard spell would fall in that "higher level [those higher than "lower level," ie- equal level or higher] light spells are not affected by darkness" category.  Since there is no mention of these two spells temporarily negating each other, does that mean that a continual flame brought into a darkness effect would still function, and there would be a 20 ft radius of bright illumination?

Hmm? Darkness will dispel a continual flame cast by a Sorcerer or Wizard, but will not affect (and in turn be dispelled by) a continual flame cast by a Cleric. Clerics are just better at making light, apparently.
I'm not actually asking about dispelling here.  Assuming the answer to Q 114 is "yes," you can have two second level spells, one light, one dark, coexisting with overlapping areas, neither of which is dispelling the other.  Unlike deeper darkness, neither darkness nor continual flame state that their overlapping areas are negated (resulting in the prevailing light conditions being present).  Rather, you have magical darkness AND clear illumination coexisting... a paradox.
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weenog

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #404 on: August 28, 2011, 04:55:28 AM »
Remember that spells like daylight and deeper darkness target on an object, which can be moved around bringing the effect with it.  Presumably what's going on is if two objects that have received opposite spells come within range of one another, the area of range overlap is affected by neither and instead has whatever light conditions would prevail normally; if you instead cast one spell on the same object that is carrying the opposing spell, the spell functions like a targeted dispel on the object (only functioning against the opposing spell) instead of having its normal effect.
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Echoes

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #405 on: August 28, 2011, 09:56:49 AM »
Thanks, I think I'm understanding the light/dark interaction now.  So, you can't use a darkness/deeper darkness SLA to prevent someone from casting a light spell, because that would be counterspelling, which you can't do with a SLA.  But, once they have cast their light spell, you can dispel it with your darkness SLA (would this dispelling require a dispel check (1d20+caster level vs DC 11+ caster level) or does it auto-succeed because it is a higher-level darkness spell?)

You got it. The rules seem silent on this issue, but I would rule that it automatically works, much like how counterspelling with a specific counter succeeds automatically.

Quote
Q 114: When using a darkness spell to dispel a light spell, do you have to cast it so as to target the other spell? (I'm assuming yes) Or can you cast it so it dispels the light spell and it goes into effect, darkening the area?  ie - does the area of the darkness spell merely overlapping the source of the light cantrip cause it to be dispelled? (I'm going with no, rather it is merely suppressed)

Again, the rules seem silent on this issue, but that is how I would rule it. You can either cast the spell or use it as a targeted dispel against the effect, but not both. I've changed my position on this from my first post on this topic because this way makes more sense and is more balanced.

Quote
Quote
Q 113: One last question on light/dark.  Darkness (2nd level) says
Quote
Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.

A continual flame cast as a second level wizard spell would fall in that "higher level [those higher than "lower level," ie- equal level or higher] light spells are not affected by darkness" category.  Since there is no mention of these two spells temporarily negating each other, does that mean that a continual flame brought into a darkness effect would still function, and there would be a 20 ft radius of bright illumination?

Hmm? Darkness will dispel a continual flame cast by a Sorcerer or Wizard, but will not affect (and in turn be dispelled by) a continual flame cast by a Cleric. Clerics are just better at making light, apparently.

I'm not actually asking about dispelling here.  Assuming the answer to Q 114 is "yes," you can have two second level spells, one light, one dark, coexisting with overlapping areas, neither of which is dispelling the other.  Unlike deeper darkness, neither darkness nor continual flame state that their overlapping areas are negated (resulting in the prevailing light conditions being present).  Rather, you have magical darkness AND clear illumination coexisting... a paradox.

"Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness." Unfortunately there's a hole when it comes to equal-level spells, so you would just have to decide which way you want things to go. I would personally rule that the most recent effect takes precedence, so if you are walking down a hallway lit with continual flames and you cast darkness, you make it darker. If you're stuck in a darkness effect and you pull out an everburning torch, you make it lighter.

Also, is anyone else baffled by how darkness creates shadowy illumination and thus can be used as a light source in conditions of actual darkness? I cast darkness in the pitch-black cave and can see now! Darkness exists as an actual illumination level, and yet the darkness spell doesn't make it dark. It makes it dim. That seems like a rip-off.
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Drull

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #406 on: August 28, 2011, 10:00:55 AM »
Can good chameleons prepare sanctified spells? Or are they not considered prepared spellcasters for the purpose of those spells?

Echoes

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #407 on: August 28, 2011, 10:31:13 AM »
Can good chameleons prepare sanctified spells? Or are they not considered prepared spellcasters for the purpose of those spells?

Chameleons prepare spells just like Wizards and/or Clerics, so there's no reason they couldn't prepare Sanctified or Corrupt spells in the same fashion.
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Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

As a general rule, murdering people and taking their stuff is pretty much superior to breaking their stuff, murdering them, then not having any stuff to take.

Out of Context Theater
[spoiler]
Oh I'll make a party. I'll make a party so hard... I'll make a party that makes you feel so awkward downstairs.

You'll see the party and only be able to respond, "Oh yeah baby."
[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #408 on: August 28, 2011, 12:58:22 PM »
Also, is anyone else baffled by how darkness creates shadowy illumination and thus can be used as a light source in conditions of actual darkness? I cast darkness in the pitch-black cave and can see now! Darkness exists as an actual illumination level, and yet the darkness spell doesn't make it dark. It makes it dim. That seems like a rip-off.
Yes that was one of the most common criticisms of the 3.0 to 3.5 transition.
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radionausea

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #409 on: August 28, 2011, 03:02:27 PM »
Q. 107:

Where can I find the feats Gunslinger and Improved Gunslinger and what do they do?

A nice Gunmage build would also have both Gunslinger and Improved Gunslinger.

Gunmage with Arcane Disciple (War) would grab Divine Power. +20 to Initiative, anyone?

We could have a build in that, you know.

anyone?
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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #410 on: August 28, 2011, 04:40:47 PM »
Q115: (How) Can you enchant specific weapons/armors with normal enchantments and (how) can you enchant normal weapons/armors with specific abilities? Would be interesting both general and in my case: I got a luck blade and want spellblade on it.

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #411 on: August 28, 2011, 05:30:41 PM »
A115a: Same as any other weapon. If you find a specific weapon, it probably has an enhancement bonus already on it, and it may also have other weapon enhancements - remember to take that into account when enchanting it further. (When adding enhancement bonuses to an existing weapon, you take the price of the final weapon and subtract the price of the existing weapon to get the cost to upgrade it.)
A115b: I know it's mentioned somewhere in the MIC, but I can't seem to find it...

balluga

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #412 on: August 28, 2011, 10:48:51 PM »
Q116: What are some ways for monsters to protect themselves against Magic Jar? I want one encounter where this spell is not an option so temporary or limited protection works.

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #413 on: August 28, 2011, 11:04:27 PM »
Q116: What are some ways for monsters to protect themselves against Magic Jar? I want one encounter where this spell is not an option so temporary or limited protection works.
Potion of any Protection from X (evil/good/etc) spell.

Edit: If you don't want to use magic items, you can use feat combos as well. Wild/Hidden Talent (to give you a psionic focus) + Martial Study (Mind Over Body) will let you substitute a concentration check instead of a Fort save, and take 15 on it by expending your psionic focus. You're not likely to fail many saves with that if you optimize your skill check even meagerly.

I forget if Magic Jar is Fort or Will. If it is Will, it's even easier as the maneuver for that is 1st level.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 11:19:35 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Maat_Mons

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #414 on: August 28, 2011, 11:05:42 PM »
Q116: What are some ways for monsters to protect themselves against Magic Jar? I want one encounter where this spell is not an option so temporary or limited protection works.
Potion of any Protection from X (evil/good/etc) spell.

Heroes of Battle has a magic item called a banner of law.  It costs 8,000 gp, can be attached to any polearm, and gives the wielder of the weapon and all his (non-chaotic) allies within 30 feet the effects of protection from law.  It says versions can be made for other alignments. 

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #415 on: August 29, 2011, 07:19:11 AM »
Q117
Does a fly by attack provoke an attack of opportunity?

ImperatorK

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #416 on: August 29, 2011, 07:53:17 AM »
Q117
Does a fly by attack provoke an attack of opportunity?
YesNo if you only move into one of your opponents threatened squares. Yes if you leave it.
Improved Flyby Attack mitigates that (but only when you leave after attacking).
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 07:55:33 AM by ImperatorK »
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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #417 on: August 29, 2011, 10:01:19 AM »
Q117
Does a fly by attack provoke an attack of opportunity?
YesNo if you only move into one of your opponents threatened squares. Yes if you leave it.
Improved Flyby Attack mitigates that (but only when you leave after attacking).
And only from the one you're attacking. Al other enemies a free to attack you when you pass by.

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #418 on: August 29, 2011, 02:58:35 PM »
Q118a: Starting gold for 1st level crusader?

Q118b: Starting gold for 1st level spellthief?
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

kevin_video

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Re: Simple Q&A 28: Revenge of the Monktopus
« Reply #419 on: August 29, 2011, 03:01:47 PM »
Q118a: Starting gold for 1st level crusader?

Q118b: Starting gold for 1st level spellthief?
a) 6d4x10 gp
b) 4d4x10 gp
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