Author Topic: Doesn't really warrant a thread I guess, but w/e: Chakram Ricochet ?_?  (Read 2362 times)

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Shiki

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So there's Boomerang Ricochet from Races of Eberron which is cool. But there's Chakram Ricochet from Champions of Ruin. Considering Aptitude from ToB, Master Thrower Doubletoss, and similars, I'm surprised by the amount of posts came out of a search of the entire forum: 2.

I know about Boomerang Daze awesomeness, but those kinds of builds are more BFCish in nature, which is better than plain DPR, but still. If precision damage transparency apply here, that's a win for Swift Hunters right here. baka  :banghead
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 10:51:29 AM by Shiki »
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snakeman830

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Re: Doesn't really warrant a thread I guess, but w/e: Chakram Ricochet ?_?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2011, 11:34:10 AM »
I think it ends up being an overlapping feat, since both use the same "primary" and "secondary" target language. and not "additional" on either one.
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Shiki

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Re: Doesn't really warrant a thread I guess, but w/e: Chakram Ricochet ?_?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2011, 02:32:25 PM »
Do note that the first use I saw from the feat was not to combine it w/ Boomerang Ricochet. I'm sure a sneak attack thrower can use it to good effects, same goes for a Swift Hunter. But now that you mention it... hmm:

[spoiler]
Quote from: Boomerang Ricochet
[...]You can hurl a Talenta boomerang or Xen'drik boomerang (see page 119 of the EBERRON Campaign Setting) in such a way that it ricochets off one target to strike a second target of your choice. If your initial attack hits, you immediately make a second attack roll at a -2 penalty against any target adjacent to the original target.[...]
Quote from: Chakram Ricochet
[...]If you hit a creature with a thrown chakram, you can cause it to ricochet and strike a secondary target in an adjacent square (within 5 feet of the primary target). You immediately make an attack roll against the secondary target, at a -2 penalty. If the attack hits, you deal damage normally.[...]
[/spoiler]

Wordings are quite similar but a tiny bit different, but the selling point here is the fact that they are two distinct abilities, even though they do the same thing, so I THINK you can combine them together for silly. :rollseyes
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JaronK

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Re: Doesn't really warrant a thread I guess, but w/e: Chakram Ricochet ?_?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2011, 08:47:17 PM »
You know, I think that works.  You apply Boomerang Ricochet first, hitting the first target.  This now hits the second target.  Since you've just hit a target you can trigger Chakram Ricochet, which allows you to hit the first guy a second time.

Of course, by RAW Chakram Ricochet just keeps working, because it triggers every time you hit a creature with a thrown Chakram... so it would keep bouncing back and forth anyway until you missed (the stacking -2 to hit would be a problem soon enough).

But even without that, you'd probably need an Aptitude Talenta or Xen'drik Boomerang, since you can't get Boomerang Ricochet with that enchantment (the feat doesn't apply to just one type of weapon).  But it does get you Chakram Ricochet.

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Re: Doesn't really warrant a thread I guess, but w/e: Chakram Ricochet ?_?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2011, 09:22:44 PM »
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Shiki

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Re: Doesn't really warrant a thread I guess, but w/e: Chakram Ricochet ?_?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2011, 06:24:31 AM »
@JaronK: Hmm, I thought you could apply Boomerang Daze/Ricochet to any weapon w/ the Aptitude property, but not w/ the Warblade class feature? (though you still need to throw the weapon for 'Ricochet to work, but that's usually a non-issue)
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JaronK

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Re: Doesn't really warrant a thread I guess, but w/e: Chakram Ricochet ?_?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2011, 06:47:54 PM »
@JaronK: Hmm, I thought you could apply Boomerang Daze/Ricochet to any weapon w/ the Aptitude property, but not w/ the Warblade class feature? (though you still need to throw the weapon for 'Ricochet to work, but that's usually a non-issue)

Well, it's not perfectly defined, but it seems to me that neither Aptitude ability works with feats that apply to multiple types of weapons (for example, both boomerang types).  This is why Piercing Weapon Mastery isn't caught by Aptitude, but Lightning Mace is... the former works with any piercing weapon, while the latter is only Light Maces.

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Re: Doesn't really warrant a thread I guess, but w/e: Chakram Ricochet ?_?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2011, 07:42:49 PM »
It says the feat has to affect the use of a particular type of weapon, not that the feat has to only affect the use of a particular type of weapon.  Sure, they probably didn't mean for it to work on piercing weapon mastery, but the probably didn't mean for it to work on lightning maces either. 

Shiki

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Re: Doesn't really warrant a thread I guess, but w/e: Chakram Ricochet ?_?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2011, 08:46:18 PM »
So Aptitude goes a long way into cheeseland. I'm fine w/ this anyway. So, w/ sufficient to-hit/Wraithstrike/similars and not missing on a 1, you can cleave through waves of targets at a distance like a boss. Interesting. :banghead
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Re: Doesn't really warrant a thread I guess, but w/e: Chakram Ricochet ?_?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2011, 11:20:40 PM »
You know, I think that works.  You apply Boomerang Ricochet first, hitting the first target.  This now hits the second target.  Since you've just hit a target you can trigger Chakram Ricochet, which allows you to hit the first guy a second time.

Of course, by RAW Chakram Ricochet just keeps working, because it triggers every time you hit a creature with a thrown Chakram... so it would keep bouncing back and forth anyway until you missed (the stacking -2 to hit would be a problem soon enough).

But even without that, you'd probably need an Aptitude Talenta or Xen'drik Boomerang, since you can't get Boomerang Ricochet with that enchantment (the feat doesn't apply to just one type of weapon).  But it does get you Chakram Ricochet.

JaronK

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