Author Topic: Ditched Cleric - Beguiler Level 6 Build to Optimize!  (Read 11707 times)

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FarmerGiles

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2011, 07:07:53 PM »
Very good points, Forest gnome is looking mighty tempting, though INT will have to stay at 16 after a LVL 4 boost........ah well that's still good! I only have 28pt plus the restrictions after all!

FarmerGiles

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2011, 08:24:37 PM »
6 / 14 / 16 / 16 / 10 / 14 after racial mods and sticking to restrictions.........I'd say I can live with that for a forest gnome!

13000gp to spend on items, naturally a headband of intellect comes first, also the Haversack and I fancied that Anklet of Translocation. Not sure what else to get that's a big item (obviously I'm getting kits, tools, bandages and a wand of lesser vigor.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 10:20:07 PM by FarmerGiles »

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Lycanthromancer

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shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
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Mixster

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Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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Lycanthromancer

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[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

FarmerGiles

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2011, 04:33:24 PM »
Oooh, some nice goodies there, particularly in the non-magical section that I wasn't aware of.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2011, 04:53:38 PM »
Oooh, some nice goodies there, particularly in the non-magical section that I wasn't aware of.
Make sure to check out Shapesand.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

FarmerGiles

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2011, 05:48:18 PM »
So far my beguiler looks as thus:

Forest Gnome
STR   6
DEX   14
CON   16
INT    16 (18)
WIS   10
CHA   14

Feats: Obtain Familiar (Hawk), Spell Focus (Enchantment), Unsettling Enchantment

Skills: 90 skill points available

Bluff = 5 ranks, modifier 7
Concentration = 9 ranks, modifier 12
Diplomacy = 4 ranks, modifier 10
Disable Device = 5 ranks, modifier 11
Disguise = 5 ranks, modifier 9
Gather Info = 5 ranks, modifier 9
Hide = 5 ranks, modifier 15 (19)
Knowledge (local) = 5 ranks, modifier 9
Listen = 5 ranks, modifer 9
Move Silently = 8 ranks, modifier 10
Search = 5 ranks, modifier 9
Sleight of Hand = 9 ranks, modifier 13
Spellcraft = 1 rank, modifier 5 (7)
Spot = 5 ranks, modifier 10
UMB = 5 ranks, modifier 7
Conceal Spellcasting
Other equipment/items

Headband of Intellect +2
Longspoon MW Theives Tools
Hawk Familiar (Alertness, + 3 Spot)

Think that's the main points. Remember the character intends to be the social man of the party. Can do the rogue/stealth stuff when necessary, but as our campaign is set in a reasonably large city to start with, I felt some local knowledge and social skills would be useful. Spellcraft rank is only for the skill trick pre req. I figured 5 ranks in Hide was enough given the whopping Forest Gnome bonuses. Would like Bluff/Diplomacy to be higher but dont know how to increase points, but then I don't know how easy it is to simply save spells for Glibness and Charm Person in those occasions.

Any further advice, sticking to Cores + SC + Completes whenever possible.

weenog

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2011, 05:57:05 PM »
For opposed checks (like Hide vs Spot, Move Silently vs Listen) there isn't a "high enough", there's always something out there with a better opposing skill modifier than the last guy.  It's static DC checks (Diplomacy, Balance) where you can have "high enough".

With Diplomacy you can use skill synergy from Bluff, Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty), and Sense Motive to increase your modifier.  You can also increase your Charisma, and you can increase Charisma-based checks in addition with something like a Circlet of Persuasion.  You can also work from the opposite angle and just lower the DC of the Diplomacy check.  Unfriendly -> Helpful is much harder than Friendly -> Helpful, so hitting somebody with Charm Person before you get your talk on can help.  So can doing something else to improve the target's attitude, like disguising yourself as something he reacts to more favorably.  You'd be amazed at what you can get away with disguising yourself as a hooker, an officer, or a hobgoblin, depending on the circumstances.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 05:58:40 PM by weenog »
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FarmerGiles

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2011, 06:03:30 PM »
Good point. A Circlet should be within my budget as well. Ideally then from what you're saying, max out all opposed skills and balance out all DC ones whenever possible.

weenog

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2011, 06:18:46 PM »
Max opposed skills you care about, rather than assuming they're good enough.  Take a close look at the beguiler's spell list, though, some of what you do with skills can be duplicated or obviated with spells.  Also, if you need to be sneaky at all, you need Darkstalker.
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FarmerGiles

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2011, 07:22:21 PM »
Was gonna say, there's a LOT of opposed skills........ This will take some decision making!

weenog

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2011, 07:26:13 PM »
Here's one for a start: Move Silently isn't something you need at/beyond level 4.  A silence spell (which you can cast) prevents you from making noise, completely.  You might think this is a self-nerf, being unable to cast spells with verbal components, but it doesn't need to be.  Instead of casting it on yourself, cast it on a pebble and carry it with you.  Then if something comes up where you need to cast, you just flick the pebble away from yourself, preferably flick it into the region of an enemy spellcaster or someone trying to shout an alarm.
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Sorator

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2011, 07:29:52 PM »
Likewise, invisibility/greater invisibility isn't too hard to get either, so Hide becomes much less useful once you have access to that (it's still potentially useful after that, just much less so).

PhaedrusXY

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2011, 07:33:26 PM »
Here's one for a start: Move Silently isn't something you need at/beyond level 4.  A silence spell (which you can cast) prevents you from making noise, completely.  You might think this is a self-nerf, being unable to cast spells with verbal components, but it doesn't need to be.  Instead of casting it on yourself, cast it on a pebble and carry it with you.  Then if something comes up where you need to cast, you just flick the pebble away from yourself, preferably flick it into the region of an enemy spellcaster or someone trying to shout an alarm.
This would require either a move or standard action. Dropping it is a free action. So if you have something to drop it into that blocks Line of Effect, that might be the best way to go. Or you could ask the DM if just closing your hand over it works, or whatever. That should be a free action, also.

But yeah, Move Silently isn't really something that is required to be maxed out, if you're willing to use Silence. Of course... this also negates your own ability to detect enemies via Listen, so it is kind of a double-edged sword. Sometimes you can hear things that you could never see because of Line of Sight, etc.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

weenog

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2011, 07:36:10 PM »
Likewise, invisibility/greater invisibility isn't too hard to get either, so Hide becomes much less useful once you have access to that (it's still potentially useful after that, just much less so).

Trouble with this one is it's very easy to see through being invisible if you have magic on your side.  Hide just works, and if you have Darkstalker it works very well.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2011, 07:38:09 PM »
Likewise, invisibility/greater invisibility isn't too hard to get either, so Hide becomes much less useful once you have access to that (it's still potentially useful after that, just much less so).

Trouble with this one is it's very easy to see through being invisible if you have magic on your side.  Hide just works, and if you have Darkstalker it works very well.
And perhaps ironically, the higher in levels you go, the more true this is. The Hide skill is one of the few examples in all of the D&D rules where a mundane ability can actually trump magical abilities to replicate it.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

FarmerGiles

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2011, 08:51:10 PM »
Don't have access to Darkstalker - also just realised I only have 81 skill points ,not 90 as I forgot about the rules for enhancement bonuses..............crap now it just got harder! :P

PhaedrusXY

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Re: New Cleric Lvl 6 - What odd domain choices are fun and funky?
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2011, 08:57:29 PM »
Don't have access to Darkstalker - also just realised I only have 81 skill points ,not 90 as I forgot about the rules for enhancement bonuses..............crap now it just got harder! :P
Because it's not allowed? Or just because you can't get your hands on the book? If the latter... http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-512-darkstalker.html
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]