Author Topic: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept  (Read 152350 times)

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JaronK

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #740 on: October 02, 2011, 04:05:13 AM »
More to the point, the Expert might not want to use Enlarge.  Maybe he wants to animate the dead or something instead.  Lord knows there are plenty of spells out there, many of which are far more useful to someone who isn't just being a beatstick.

JaronK

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #741 on: October 02, 2011, 04:26:45 AM »
At first level, Ray of Enfeeblement comes to mind. It benefits the Expert much more than the Monk because of the Expert's weakness in melee combat.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

SorO_Lost

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #742 on: October 02, 2011, 06:16:42 AM »
Quote

It doesn't make UMD a class skill, it gives skill focus and a bonus of 1/2 level, which is really close effect wise.
DMGII's Apprentice feat makes it a class skill, also 3rd party Skill Prodigy, so if what ever you're talking about needs it...

More to the point, the Expert might not want to use Enlarge.  Maybe he wants to animate the dead or something instead.  Lord knows there are plenty of spells out there, many of which are far more useful to someone who isn't just being a beatstick.
Actually when you get down to it Animate Dead doesn't required UMD.  Libris Mortis offers a 7k whistle that works once a week, it has a 2 followers limit rather than an HD limit too so pick up two 14 headers or something.

***

The Class X Fallacy does things in the wrong way or maybe the people using it are just talking crap with 30% more funny names added. Like I find it comparable to the book limit concept. They both get pulled out when one side is at a loss and needs some form of handicap. Example; I UMD stuff that isn't beatstick so I R Bet Tur Than U & My class gets virtually no splat book support so Core Only bitch! It's like admitting to failing and thinly veiled as trolling.


P.S. Enlarge? Srsly, why the hell does Giacomole even support Monks? He is like the Caboose of Monk Supporters. JaronK needs to stop moonlighting as him before he picks up gonorsyphiltis; which has been known to develop into full fledged polyoliosis.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Sir Giacomo

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #743 on: October 02, 2011, 09:33:19 AM »
Yeah, sourLoss, enlarge is a really awful buff for a monk.  :rollseyes

Meanwhile, I see that some posters around here really continue to have difficulties with how to properly  compare classes.
So the only thing that remains for me to say is that we agree to disagree.

- Giacomo

SorO_Lost

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #744 on: October 02, 2011, 02:58:01 PM »
Yeah, sourLoss, enlarge is a really awful buff for a monk.  :rollseyes

Meanwhile, I see that some posters around here really continue to have difficulties with how to properly  compare classes.
So the only thing that remains for me to say is that we agree to disagree.

- Giacomo
Yes, you guys cannot agree on how to measure classes and thus will never come to a conclusion.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

X-Codes

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #745 on: October 02, 2011, 03:24:55 PM »
Yeah, sourLoss, enlarge is a really awful buff for a monk.  :rollseyes

Meanwhile, I see that some posters around here really continue to have difficulties with how to properly  compare classes.
So the only thing that remains for me to say is that we agree to disagree.

- Giacomo
Yes, you guys cannot agree on how to measure classes and thus will never come to a conclusion.
We can agree to troll the thread until it dies.

ImperatorK

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #746 on: October 02, 2011, 03:27:51 PM »
Yeah, sourLoss, enlarge is a really awful buff for a monk.  :rollseyes

Meanwhile, I see that some posters around here really continue to have difficulties with how to properly  compare classes.
So the only thing that remains for me to say is that we agree to disagree.

- Giacomo
Yes, you guys cannot agree on how to measure classes and thus will never come to a conclusion.
We can agree to troll the thread until it dies.
And how is it any different from what you have collectively done up until now?
"I'm done thinking for today! It's caused me enough trouble!"
"Take less damage to avoid being killed."
"In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."


[spoiler]
Quote from: Lateral
Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

 Plus, where other clerics say "For Pelor," "For Nerull," or "For Crom?" You get to say, "FOR SCIENCE!" *fanfare*

About me:
Quote from: dark_samuari
I know your game, you just want a magical Amazon.com to knock off those good ol' honest magic shops run by polite, old wizards!
Use Iron Heart Surge on the sun. That'll teach him to use fluff as RAW.

Damn you! You totally ruined my build that was all about getting epic far shot early and throwing my enemies into the sun!
[/spoiler]

X-Codes

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #747 on: October 02, 2011, 03:30:07 PM »
Yeah, sourLoss, enlarge is a really awful buff for a monk.  :rollseyes

Meanwhile, I see that some posters around here really continue to have difficulties with how to properly  compare classes.
So the only thing that remains for me to say is that we agree to disagree.

- Giacomo
Yes, you guys cannot agree on how to measure classes and thus will never come to a conclusion.
We can agree to troll the thread until it dies.
And how is it any different from what you have collectively done up until now?
I put in an honest effort in the first thread.

Bauglir

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #748 on: October 02, 2011, 04:29:48 PM »
As did I up until I start talking about Knobs. Seriously, at this point I think this thing needs to die. Trolling is wrong, I admit that, and I'd apologize for it if I hadn't been doing it in a setting where trolling contributes about as much to progressing the discussion as the discussion itself does, with the added advantage of being funny on some level.

Of course, that makes sense, since every thread since the first has just been a troll post and certain people haven't been able to let it go. And, being trolls, the thread starters can't let it go, either.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

X-Codes

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #749 on: October 02, 2011, 04:45:51 PM »
As did I up until I start talking about Knobs. Seriously, at this point I think this thing needs to die. Trolling is wrong, I admit that, and I'd apologize for it if I hadn't been doing it in a setting where trolling contributes about as much to progressing the discussion as the discussion itself does, with the added advantage of being funny on some level.

Of course, that makes sense, since every thread since the first has just been a troll post and certain people haven't been able to let it go. And, being trolls, the thread starters can't let it go, either.
Maybe they will let it go if we find some way to incorporate a robe and wizard hat into this thread.

Mixster

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #750 on: October 02, 2011, 05:21:37 PM »
I thought this case was closed since only Giacomo kept arguing for the monk side and that was kindda meaningless.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #751 on: October 02, 2011, 05:36:15 PM »
I thought this case was closed since only Giacomo kept arguing for the monk side and that was kindda meaningless.
I thought that was given, but people keep responding to Giacomo.

SorO_Lost

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #752 on: October 02, 2011, 08:18:48 PM »
As did I up until I start talking about Knobs. Seriously, at this point I think this thing needs to die. Trolling is wrong, I admit that, and I'd apologize for it if I hadn't been doing it in a setting where trolling contributes about as much to progressing the discussion as the discussion itself does, with the added advantage of being funny on some level.

Of course, that makes sense, since every thread since the first has just been a troll post and certain people haven't been able to let it go. And, being trolls, the thread starters can't let it go, either.
TL;DR.

Really, I like these threads. It reminds me that I'm not the thickest headed, or most illogical, or conceited, or retarded, or even have the most number of troll-style posts. And I do feel my asshole credentials remain intact so it's win/win. Plus, I learned some nifty Monk tricks, came up with a new way to build a Swordsage, and downloaded two white dragon encounters. I even learned about the Night Caller recently too though it was a bit unrelated.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

ImperatorK

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #753 on: October 03, 2011, 12:49:58 AM »
"I'm done thinking for today! It's caused me enough trouble!"
"Take less damage to avoid being killed."
"In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."


[spoiler]
Quote from: Lateral
Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

 Plus, where other clerics say "For Pelor," "For Nerull," or "For Crom?" You get to say, "FOR SCIENCE!" *fanfare*

About me:
Quote from: dark_samuari
I know your game, you just want a magical Amazon.com to knock off those good ol' honest magic shops run by polite, old wizards!
Use Iron Heart Surge on the sun. That'll teach him to use fluff as RAW.

Damn you! You totally ruined my build that was all about getting epic far shot early and throwing my enemies into the sun!
[/spoiler]

snakeman830

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #754 on: October 03, 2011, 12:56:59 AM »
Tell 'em, Fluttershy.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Bauglir

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #755 on: October 03, 2011, 01:15:33 AM »
... Well, I can't argue with Fluttershy. I'm done.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.


SorO_Lost

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #757 on: October 03, 2011, 06:00:18 PM »
... Well, I can't argue with Fluttershy. I'm done.
I can.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=pony+play&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1151&bih=680

Be nauseated (or be distracted, either or).
Eww, Safari, damn Apple people. I bet my Microsoft can beat ur apple! Also I have a wider screen than you.

Really, to improved your link-fu, tbm=isch means image search. Example: http://www.google.com/search?q=pony+death&tbm=isch (which redirects to add in your display range).

Edit - Edited because I can.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 06:33:52 PM by SorO_Lost »
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

X-Codes

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #758 on: October 03, 2011, 07:38:46 PM »
... Well, I can't argue with Fluttershy. I'm done.
I can.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=pony+play&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1151&bih=680

Be nauseated (or be distracted, either or).
Eww, Safari, damn Apple people. I bet my Microsoft can beat ur apple! Also I have a wider screen than you.

Really, to improved your link-fu, tbm=isch means image search. Example: http://www.google.com/search?q=pony+death&tbm=isch (which redirects to add in your display range).

Edit - Edited because I can.
I concede defeat.  This post made me laugh too hard to come up with a witty comeback.

SorO_Lost

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Re: Adept vs Unarmed Swordsage 2: Revenge of Monk vs Adept
« Reply #759 on: October 04, 2011, 12:10:09 AM »
... Well, I can't argue with Fluttershy. I'm done.
I can.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=pony+play&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1151&bih=680

Be nauseated (or be distracted, either or).
Eww, Safari, damn Apple people. I bet my Microsoft can beat ur apple! Also I have a wider screen than you.

Really, to improved your link-fu, tbm=isch means image search. Example: http://www.google.com/search?q=pony+death&tbm=isch (which redirects to add in your display range).

Edit - Edited because I can.
I concede defeat.  This post made me laugh too hard to come up with a witty comeback.
:D

I want the Joker pony.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]