Author Topic: Race indecision :)  (Read 2487 times)

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charleskoz

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Race indecision :)
« on: July 26, 2011, 11:30:03 PM »
Okay so maybe I spend too much time considering simple choices that don't matter that much, but I'm torn between three options for my gestalt Beguiler//Erudite.

Elan: I love defensive characters and the ability to spend 1 PP to get +4 saves or avoid 2 damage -- or even better with feats -- calls to me. The -2 Cha is no big deal. OTOH, do I want to spend feats on this? Do I need it if I have Vigor and other gimmicks? No experience here.

Gray Elf: This character really benefits from any pluses to Int: it helps with spellcasting, manifesting, power points, and skill points. Some other minor benefits. -2 Con stinks though.

Human: Boring, but an extra feat and extra skill points.

Any thoughts from more experienced psionic players? Thanks. :)

Bard

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 11:34:29 PM »
If you plan to use some way to recharge your Power Points between encounters, Elan is a no brainer, it's by far the best race... If not it might not be wise to waste much PP on its racials... I'd take Human over Gray Elf in that case
[Spoiler]
His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
[/spoiler]

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 11:41:19 PM »
Have you considered Kalashtar from Eberron?  They get +1 PP PER HIT DIE among other things.

charleskoz

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2011, 11:43:54 PM »
Can't do kalashtar or I would.

No idea how to recharge PP between encounters. We have a pretty low-key set of books and a low tolerance for cheese, if that's what's required. :)

Thanks for the replies.

Mixster

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 11:47:26 PM »
Elan also has the benefit that it can Alter Self into Aberrations instead, for example a grick that has 4 attacks or some other tentacly thing that can kill stuff with touch spells. If you can take that psionic feat that allows you to get their abilities, this can give you a bunch of different abilities, and allow you to enter Beholder Mage at level 8.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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snakeman830

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 12:25:38 AM »
Can't do kalashtar or I would.

No idea how to recharge PP between encounters. We have a pretty low-key set of books and a low tolerance for cheese, if that's what's required. :)

Thanks for the replies.
At least two methods exist in just the Expanded Psionics Handbook.  One requires a dip into Wilder and another requires 9th level powers, though.

Then again, there is a third option that isn't infinitely repeatable, but is available to anyone: use Manifester Arrows to manifest Bestow power, targetting yourself.  It's rediculously cheap to do.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Bard

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 12:28:24 AM »
Can't do kalashtar or I would.

No idea how to recharge PP between encounters. We have a pretty low-key set of books and a low tolerance for cheese, if that's what's required. :)

Thanks for the replies.

Yes and no... it's a bit cheesy and with Elan it makes you a good deal better, but it requires some quiet time out of combat to perform in its simpliest version (there are faster and more cheesier versions too, but I tend to avoid those)
Basically the one I use it more often is using Earth Power and a Torc of Power Preservation (not sure of the name, it should be in the XPH or Complete Psion or MIC...) to reduce by 2 points the cost of Bestow Power and targeting it on yourself so you can use 1 pp to recharge 2pp to yourself, supplying the "extra power" from the earth and magic of the item (Earth Power requires you to stand focused on earth or rock). It's a quite slow method of recharging PP compred to others and that sorta makes it a bit more "acceptable" in a game that's not High-OP
[Spoiler]
His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
[/spoiler]

weenog

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 06:40:53 AM »
Gray Elf: This character really benefits from any pluses to Int: it helps with spellcasting, manifesting, power points, and skill points. Some other minor benefits. -2 Con stinks though.

Are you allowed Libris Mortis?  If so the Necropolitan template might make this option a bit more appealing to you.  Unmodified d12s average out the same as d6+3s.  Immunity to most effects that allow Fort saves is helpful too, though you should be very careful about the few that can affect you.
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
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JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2011, 07:53:42 AM »
human, and call it a day
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Can you find the Wumpus? (Hint: start with the spoiler....)
[spoiler] :beathorse [/spoiler]
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Mixster

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2011, 08:09:59 AM »
Gray Elf: This character really benefits from any pluses to Int: it helps with spellcasting, manifesting, power points, and skill points. Some other minor benefits. -2 Con stinks though.

Are you allowed Libris Mortis?  If so the Necropolitan template might make this option a bit more appealing to you.  Unmodified d12s average out the same as d6+3s.  Immunity to most effects that allow Fort saves is helpful too, though you should be very careful about the few that can affect you.

Uhh, you should totally stack faeries mysterie initiate on top of that. Nothing spells cool as having D12+6+Int HP.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

Halinn

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 08:27:02 AM »
Torc of Power Preservation (not sure of the name, it should be in the XPH or Complete Psion or MIC...)

MIC p. 143, costs 4000 gp for 5/day reducing the cost of a power by 1. So two feats, and then you can gain a net of 5 pp for each 4k you spend. Manifester arrows are much better, but they do totally destroy the weakness of psionic characters that is not having enough pp.

weenog

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2011, 08:43:00 AM »
Gray Elf: This character really benefits from any pluses to Int: it helps with spellcasting, manifesting, power points, and skill points. Some other minor benefits. -2 Con stinks though.

Are you allowed Libris Mortis?  If so the Necropolitan template might make this option a bit more appealing to you.  Unmodified d12s average out the same as d6+3s.  Immunity to most effects that allow Fort saves is helpful too, though you should be very careful about the few that can affect you.

Uhh, you should totally stack faeries mysterie initiate on top of that. Nothing spells cool as having D12+6+Int HP.

Does your partner get Lichloved free if you do this?
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
"That sounds like a victory to me."

Bard

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2011, 10:43:35 AM »
Torc of Power Preservation (not sure of the name, it should be in the XPH or Complete Psion or MIC...)

MIC p. 143, costs 4000 gp for 5/day reducing the cost of a power by 1. So two feats, and then you can gain a net of 5 pp for each 4k you spend. Manifester arrows are much better, but they do totally destroy the weakness of psionic characters that is not having enough pp.
Torc of Power Preservation, XPH p.177. costs 36000gp and has unlimited uses.
[Spoiler]
His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
[/spoiler]

snakeman830

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2011, 11:44:55 AM »
Torc of Power Preservation (not sure of the name, it should be in the XPH or Complete Psion or MIC...)

MIC p. 143, costs 4000 gp for 5/day reducing the cost of a power by 1. So two feats, and then you can gain a net of 5 pp for each 4k you spend. Manifester arrows are much better, but they do totally destroy the weakness of psionic characters that is not having enough pp.
Torc of Power Preservation, XPH p.177. costs 36000gp and has unlimited uses.
And it's worth noting that, unlike Spell Compendium, MIC never states that it is an update on older items.  Instead, (although not explicitly) it provides variants (usually cheaper, or downright better in the case of the Relics) of many existing items.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2011, 12:23:48 PM »
a low tolerance for cheese, if that's what's required.


And yet your DM allows Gestalt and the Erudite class.


You do know that you physically cannot fill out the Erudite's UPD with just the XPH and CP, right?


[spoiler][/spoiler]

charleskoz

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2011, 01:30:14 PM »
We negotiated what we mutually agreed was a reasonable compromise on the UPD issue.

Gestalts are powerful but not inherently cheesy. I view a gestalt character as maybe 50-70% more powerful than a single character, and this party has three characters, so that's not much more than a standard four character party.

I see cheese as not being about power per se but the degree to which unforeseen combinations are exploited to result in actions that are within the letter of the rules but not their spirit. For example, using manifester arrows to give regenerate power points is cheese, because it's obvious that the designers never intended you to be able to use them this way, at least in my opinion. Those silly gimmicks where you end up with hundreds of actions in a round are cheese. We try to be reasonable with each other and avoid this sort of stuff.

Our limited selection of books also restricts the degree to which gestalt characters can be exploited.

Chilastra022

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Re: Race indecision :)
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2011, 01:22:43 AM »
Alternatively, while its not as optimized as say a kalashtar with dragon shards, or even Elan, a D'vati Erudite(if dragon compendium is allowed, i didnt see any list of books allowed or not so i dont know.) can be quite fun to play, and have their own little tricks that make them effective psionic/spellcaster characters :)