Free Spells! (slots)

[Halinn]

But there's no baseline stating that they don't either, as the spellcasting +1 classes explicitly require a class beforehand, except dragon devotee.

So your argument is of the "it doesn't say I can't, so I can" form?

[WarlockLord]

The class says you advance as a binder.

There is no disclaimer stating you need binder levels to advance.

I'm saying your entire argument is based on a comparison to things that don't really compare.

[X-Codes]

The class says you advance as a binder.

There is no disclaimer stating you need binder levels to advance.

I'm saying your entire argument is based on a comparison to things that don't really compare.

Actually, no, it wasn't my argument at all, nevermind my entire argument.  It was an example of how the interaction works.  You take a level in a PrC that advances casting, but you have no previous ability to cast spells.  As such, you lose the casting ability of the class.  Similarly, if you take a level of Anima Mage without any levels of Binder, you lose the advancement of the Binder class.  The reason why is because you can't add 1 to null to get 1.

Lol so binding has to follow the patterns of spell casting because you say so? Assumption. Adding 1 to something you currently have none of somehow equals 0? Mathematical failure. Null ability to bind? Directly opposite rules text, which indicates anima mage levels stack as binder levels for binding vestiges. You're making up rules with absolutely no basis in the rules text.

You obviously have no clue what the mathematical concept of null is, as incredibly simple as it is, so spare me your criticism of my knowledge of mathematics.

[spacemonkey555]

The class says you advance as a binder.

There is no disclaimer stating you need binder levels to advance.

I'm saying your entire argument is based on a comparison to things that don't really compare.

Actually, no, it wasn't my argument at all, nevermind my entire argument.  It was an example of how the interaction works.  You take a level in a PrC that advances casting, but you have no previous ability to cast spells.  As such, you lose the casting ability of the class.  Similarly, if you take a level of Anima Mage without any levels of Binder, you lose the advancement of the Binder class.  The reason why is because you can't add 1 to null to get 1.

Lol so binding has to follow the patterns of spell casting because you say so? Assumption. Adding 1 to something you currently have none of somehow equals 0? Mathematical failure. Null ability to bind? Directly opposite rules text, which indicates anima mage levels stack as binder levels for binding vestiges. You're making up rules with absolutely no basis in the rules text.

You obviously have no clue what the mathematical concept of null is, as incredibly simple as it is, so spare me your criticism of my knowledge of mathematics.

In mathematics, the word null (from German null, which is from Latin nullus, both meaning "zero", or "none")[1] means of or related to having zero members in a set or a value of zero.

It is incredibly simple, and you are incredibly wrong. You want to be right, so you're inventing both new rules and new mathematics to prove yourself so. Null can be differentiated from 0, but mathematically the null set has a value of 0 when added.

[X-Codes]

I was looking for a word to describe my position and got one from the wrong context (null pointer).  Sue me.  You still need two numbers to perform an addition function, and you don't have two numbers, you have 1.  You can't magically pull a 0 out of your ass because you feel like it.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

It's like getting a belt of constitution and sticking it on an undead with -- constitution.

Not having a trait isn't the same thing has having 0 of a trait.

[X-Codes]

It's like getting a belt of constitution and sticking it on an undead with -- constitution.

Not having a trait isn't the same thing has having 0 of a trait.

Thank you.  I didn't think of that analogy.

[spacemonkey555]

It's like getting a belt of constitution and sticking it on an undead with -- constitution.

Not having a trait isn't the same thing has having 0 of a trait.

 
You have the ability from the feats to bind as a 5th level binder, with limits. You get a bonus/improvement to that existing ability. If you didn't have it, you couldn't enter the class.

[Halinn]

Then logically, you would improve that ability, including the limitations in that.

[spacemonkey555]

Then logically, you would improve that ability, including the limitations in that.

The improvement, obviously, is that your soul binding ability is as if you took a level of binder. Do you think a character with a level of binder can bind as if he only had the feat?

[Halinn]

I do, in fact, not think a character with a level of binder could have the feat at all, meaning that we're back to losing access to anima mage for not qualifying.

[WarlockLord]

Unless you take improved binding with your first level in anima mage.