Author Topic: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign  (Read 6728 times)

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TheMasaoL

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[Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« on: July 12, 2011, 10:29:52 PM »
As the title says the topic is that of a world without magic. In this world magic never existed. There are no SLAs and creatures that can't have a pseudo science explain them, don't exist or at least have their SLAs removed. The closest thing to a magic class is the alchemist because he mixes potions that are pseudo scienced into existence every other magic class is banned or has the magic casting traits removed (spell free rangers etc).

In a world like this the only thing i can think of by way of optimization is a Kobold fighter. Its small size, fast speed, and high dex would make great tank. Charisma is almost meaningless and wisdom does not need much put into it beyond helping out a few skills. Intelligence as a stat is also not likely to be a great focus either. So this Kobold fighter could get away with a Dex-Con-Str-Int-Wis-Cha stratagy aiming for just not getting hit and cherry tapping his enemies to death with his greatsword/Long bow combo. He may be even better as a rogue.

Out of 3.5 some prestige classes may be allowed but thats it. Can anyone else come up with some interesting ideas?

So can anyone come up with better ideas optimizing for this world

WarlockLord

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 11:21:58 PM »
Could you define "pseudoscience"?  Because if psionics are included, they'd be your best bet.

What level are you?

Under no circumstances do you want to play a melee fighter.  Most of the monsters that are left (judging from your description) are the ones that will melee better than you and kick your ass.  Hard.

Solo

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 11:40:36 PM »
Be a dwarf, invent the repeating rifle.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Luckanan

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 11:45:29 PM »
In a world without magic, magic still wins.  Play the alchemist.

TheMasaoL

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 12:26:34 AM »
well giants exist because of simply ingnoring the square/cube law. Red and Gold dragons can exist, albeit without spells or shape changing, by assuming that their bones are hollow. The special organ in the dragonomicon is actually an organ used for collecting lighter than air gasses for flight that multipurpose for fire breathing. Blue dragons get to use the whole eel-muscle-static-generator bit. The rest simply have no breath weapons.

Most supernatural abilities are useable through somesort of pseudo science thing like the shaolin qigong for monks. The alchemist is simply bad science in general kinda like hulk being powerd up by radiation. I guess in short its just something that poorly informed science can justify but wont tolerate the blatantly unacceptable like flight without wings, walking on water, animated rotting corpses, rapid transformation of living things, and lighting ones self on fire at a whim and being totally unharmed.

I would need to ask about psionics but given the above, killing somebody with a thought would fall under blatantly unacceptable. Starting level is 5 but is likely to progress to level 18.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2011, 12:52:08 AM »
Go for a crusader/warblade build, and take healing strikes and maneuvers (as your group will be desperate for healing, assuming they don't die right off).

Or maybe go artificer, and make items that can be pseudoscienced away. Hell, sufficiently advanced technology, and all that. Hats of disguise are holographic. Healing belts involve nanotechnology. Wands are tech-guns. Etc.

Also, this is one time where psionics = psi-fi can be used to your advantage (despite the fact that Vancian is actually sci-fi and psionics is closer to 90% of all the fantasy magic ever made).
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 12:53:43 AM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 02:01:50 AM »
If you don't go for the pseudo-science, you'll want to avoid melee as much as possible, because all those big, nasty monsters will completely destroy your magic-less butt in melee. I'd go for a sneaky sniper type of build, like a ranger/rogue/shadowdancer, maybe with some horizon walker for tremorsense. You're going to want to use mounts for their superior speed whenever possible, too. I'd just use expendable ones, and be ready to leave them behind to slow down things that want to eat you long enough for you to hide...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 03:18:11 AM »
A mounted archer using a warbeast Wild Cohort can do some serious damage.

And yes, unless you go crusader, everyone in the party who doesn't want to die (and quickly) should kill from stealth and/or range.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 03:48:43 AM »
At the levels you mention, the Pathfinder Fighter makes a mean mean archer.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

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oslecamo

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 07:53:53 AM »
Mounted ranged combat. Whitout magic, archery+mobility rules the jungle. Load up in any movement-impairing stuff that's still available. I would guess tanglefoot bags are still ok.

Also, this is one time where psionics = psi-fi can be used to your advantage (despite the fact that Vancian is actually sci-fi and psionics is closer to 90% of all the fantasy magic ever made).

I don't recall 90% of fantasy magic ever made being completely independent of words, exotic material components and special gestures. In 90% of fantasy, tying up and gagging the mage actualy hinders them. In 90% of fantasy mages need some sort of implement and special components. A psion meanwhile can have all its limbs and tongue choped off, naked, and it won't care a single damn about it.


The_Laughing_Man

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 09:23:22 AM »
Are warlocks allowed? How about binders (vestiges)? Is incarnum ok? How about blade magic (a la Tome of Battle)? Maybe these questions are irrelevant as don't know much about PF.

veekie

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2011, 09:50:56 AM »
Mounted ranged combat. Whitout magic, archery+mobility rules the jungle. Load up in any movement-impairing stuff that's still available. I would guess tanglefoot bags are still ok.

Also, this is one time where psionics = psi-fi can be used to your advantage (despite the fact that Vancian is actually sci-fi and psionics is closer to 90% of all the fantasy magic ever made).

I don't recall 90% of fantasy magic ever made being completely independent of words, exotic material components and special gestures. In 90% of fantasy, tying up and gagging the mage actualy hinders them. In 90% of fantasy mages need some sort of implement and special components. A psion meanwhile can have all its limbs and tongue choped off, naked, and it won't care a single damn about it.


I think hes referring to the resource mechanic.
If you swapped for psionic slots and spell points, it'd make more sense.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

oslecamo

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2011, 10:45:34 AM »
Power points still fits psionics better. Mage battles in fantasy are usually all about finding the special spell weakness/combo. Psionic dudes are the ones I expect to get stronger effects just because they're more motivated. It's a staple of sci-fi really. Psionic kid gets angry and suddenly everything around it colapses.

Ed-Zero

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2011, 02:09:04 PM »
I guess people just don't know what can be done with the alchemist if they're saying that a fighter or a shadowdancer would be better in a almost no magic world

PhaedrusXY

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2011, 02:27:15 PM »
I guess people just don't know what can be done with the alchemist if they're saying that a fighter or a shadowdancer would be better in a almost no magic world
Who said they'd be better? I said if you don't go with the pseudo-science character, then I'd go with a stealthy ranged one.

I don't see where anyone in this thread said that that would be better.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2011, 04:34:26 PM »
^^
What he said, you could all show up with alchemists, but honestly one alchemist is enough to keep the party drugged most fights and two would be able to keep them high on PCP all day long.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Lycanthromancer

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[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

TheMasaoL

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2011, 08:22:32 PM »
Thanks for all the aid on this. I think Lycan and Oslecamo have some good ideas about ranged combat and movement.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2011, 08:31:31 PM »
Power points still fits psionics better. Mage battles in fantasy are usually all about finding the special spell weakness/combo. Psionic dudes are the ones I expect to get stronger effects just because they're more motivated. It's a staple of sci-fi really. Psionic kid gets angry and suddenly everything around it colapses.
As opposed to all the wizards that have enough personal energy left to level Tokyo with a few words, but struggle to light a candle because they haven't memorized the right (or enough) spells?
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

rasmuswagner

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Re: [Pathfinder] No Magic Campaign
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2011, 04:41:43 AM »
Mounted ranged combat. Whitout magic, archery+mobility rules the jungle. Load up in any movement-impairing stuff that's still available. I would guess tanglefoot bags are still ok.

I don't recall 90% of fantasy magic ever made being completely independent of words, exotic material components and special gestures. In 90% of fantasy, tying up and gagging the mage actualy hinders them. In 90% of fantasy mages need some sort of implement and special components. A psion meanwhile can have all its limbs and tongue choped off, naked, and it won't care a single damn about it.

Depends on the fantasy you read. Most of the fantasy I've read, the magic just required willpower/faith, once it's established that you're a special fucking snowflake. Most of the restricted magic comes from game-derived trash.