Author Topic: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!  (Read 3992 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Chemus

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« on: July 26, 2008, 07:09:07 AM »
I've edited this from my original concept due to extreme cheese

I'm looking to be a party Face who deals moderately respectable damage in combat. Originally I was looking to be a controller/tripper, but the build was very very funky. Obviously, I don't have a very good idea on what to do with my feats and really need focus there. Plus, I'd like help making sure that I'm not messing anything up here, and if anything would make better sense, I'm all ears.

Thanks for the help!
Quote from: Books allowed/not allowed
Sources other than this will require discussion with the DM, and will be approved or denied on a case-by-case basis.

PHB 1 and 2
DMG 1 and 2
MM 1, 2, 3, 4
The "Complete" handbooks
The "Races of" handbooks
Heroes of Horror
Heroes of Battle
Spell Compendium
Magic Item Compendium

not allowed
XPH
BoVD


Changeling (level 7) 32-point buy

Str 12 (0 pts) (+4 from Morphic Body)
Dex 16 (8 pts, +1 at L4)
Con 14 (2pts) (+4 from Morphic Body)
Int 18 (16 pts)
Wis 10 (2 pts)
Cha 12 (4 pts)

1 Urban Ranger 1, Feat: Able Learner
2 Swashbuckler 1, BFeat: Weapon Finesse
3 Swashbuckler 2, Feat: Skill Focus Concentration?
4 Swashbuckler 3
5 Warshaper 1(CW)
6 Warshaper 2, Feat: Persona Immersion
7 Cabinet Trickster 1(RoE)***game starting here***
8 Mindspy 1 (CW)
9 CT 2, Feat?
10 CT 3
11 CT 4
12 CT 5, Feat?
13 MS 2
14 MS 3
15 MS 4, Feat?
16 MS 5
17 WS 3?
18 WS 4?
19
20

HD: 1d8+3d10+2d8+1d6+14 (38, taking avg)

BAB: 5 (+3 Dex), AC: 18 (mithril breastplate), +1 Rapier

Base Saves
Fort +8
Ref +6
Will +3 (+2 vs. sleep and charm effects)

Skill Points: 46 (+40 Int) (2 spent on each of these Skill tricks: Assume Quirk, Never Outnumbered, Social recovery)

Concentration 10 (+3 Con)
Disguise 10 (+10 using minor change shape, +2 Cha, +4 if reading mind, +2 when knows he's observed)
Intimidate 10 (+2 Cha, +4 racial)
Gather Information 10 (+2 Cha)
Bluff 10 (+2 Cha, +4 racial, +4 if reading mind)
Sense Motive 10 (+4 racial)
Diplomacy 10 (+2 Cha, +2 Bluff Syn., +2 Sense Motive Syn)
Speak Language: 10 languages, +4 from Int

Special Abilities:

Minor Change shape: Full-round action, +/- 1 foot, change features, +10 Disguise (unnamed or circumstance depending on source), at will.

Grace: +1 competence bonus to Reflex saves

Insightful strike +4: add Int bonus to damage vs. creatures that are vulnerable to crits, while not in Med/Hvy armor or load

Morphic Immunities (Ex): Immune to stunning and critical hits.

Morphic Weapons: 1d6 bite, 1d4 claw (2, but usually uses rapier in one hand), (1d6 gore, 1d6 tail, 1d4 tentacle (4?) these types of attacks are grown during battle, the others are generally 'worn' continuously)

Morphic Body: +4 Str & Con

Detect Thoughts 2/day (DC=10 +1 +2) +4 (circumstance) to Disguise and Bluff if reading opponent's mind. Max. 7 min's concentration each use.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 09:24:15 PM by Chemus »
*waves hand* This is not the sig you're looking for...
The freely downloadable and searchable 3.5 SRD I prefer (Web)
Camlen, Enniwey

Chemus

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2008, 06:55:12 PM »
This is just a bump, since I've rebuilt the concept, and defined both it and what I want it to do, somewhat. Thanks.
*waves hand* This is not the sig you're looking for...
The freely downloadable and searchable 3.5 SRD I prefer (Web)
Camlen, Enniwey

Omen of Peace

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1053
  • Wise Madman
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2008, 05:17:28 AM »
I don't see a lot of synergy between Warshaper (don't get me wrong - it's good - but it's oriented towards melee tanks/damage dealers, with emphasis on Str/Con) and the whole skillmonkey/face/Dex-based fighter thing.

1) Why do you need your Int to be so high ? Your core abilities are Dex (defense and offense) and Cha (face). Now, you may not have enough skill points, but that may be because the classes are not suitable.

2) Too bad BoED is not in (Nymph's Kiss). But you can and have to get a Circlet of Persuasion (DMG).

Now, I am not well-versed in this kind of build, but it seems to me some Rogue levels and a shift from Int to Dex could be worthwhile.
PB 8 18 10 14 10 14 ; +1 Dex at level 4
Rogue 3/Swash 2/Warshaper 2 with  Daring Outlaw

Take the 2 Changeling Rogue substitution levels (RoE) - the first one in particular is really good for Face business, and you get 10+Int skill points per level !
I kept Warshaper, but you could also go with something else. You lose Insightful Strike, but you gain 3d6 SA (2d6 w/o DO).

It probably doesn't fit what you have in mind, but I would consider a Bard too.
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson

DaveTheMagicWeasel

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
  • If you optimize it, they will come
    • Email
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2008, 06:41:41 AM »
I could've sworn I'd posted a reply to the first build.

Anyway, I quite liked the first one - I'd have tried to fit in Extra Rage and started with Warshaper 2 tho (extra Con to cover up lack of hp).

For this one, it lacks focus imo.  It can't control the battlefield, or deal much damage, and isn't very mobile.  I think the original idea had some potential, just needed tweaking somewhat imo.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 07:20:48 AM by DaveTheMagicWeasel »

DetectiveJabsco

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 463
  • Here's To Life
    • Email
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2008, 07:44:55 AM »
You could go
Factotum 10/Chameleon 10
or just
Factotum 20

Chemus

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2008, 08:06:55 AM »
Omen: I'm using warshaper for 2 extra attacks, and sometimes as many as 7 or even 9 extra attacks! It would just depend on the danger level of the area or the duration of the battle. I will grant that I need to be able to get full attack actions, but I think that that can be arranged. Each attack would have +6 damage, with the gear below. That's not on par with 3d6, but it multiplies with crits, and is not very conditional; I just need to be attacking things that are vulnerable to critical hits. That's also the reason for the high Int, plus it allows me to have skills listed without having many class skillpoints.

Your build has many merits, and I may go back to rogue with the changeling sub level(s) (it's what I had started with). It slows down warshaper though, and getting Int to damage from the swashbuckler seems rather tasty.

You're right about the gear. I need stuff, and I didn't properly list anything much. Here's a quick list:

2320 gp for a Rapier +1
1250 gp for a Chain Shirt +1
8500 gp for a Circlet of Persuasion and Intellect +2
4000 gp for Gloves of Dexterity +2
2000 gp for Ring of Protection +1
=18070 gp spent out of 19000 gp.

I'm torn about the last 930 gp. I like so many things, but the Everlasting Rations (350 gp) fit my backstory a bit, and I always liked the Hand of the mage (as long as it doesn't actually have to be a hand :P). Shiftweave (500 gp) would be good too. An Everfull Mug (200 gp) would go very well with the rations.

Sir Magic Weasel: I still have that build, but it had too many variants on it; it was big smoky cheese. Do you have insight on how I can be a better battlefield controller? I'm thinking that I need to be Size: Large. Is that not so? I guess I could forgo the goliath thing and try to get Caelic to allow Stand Still. But how will I get enough damage to negate their save? Improved feint is expensive!

Hmm...Changeling Rogue 1/ Fighter2/ Rogue 2/ Warshaper 2...that removes the cabinet trickster for a while though and that was my ticket to a will save higher than +1. Plus I was set to get into mindspy and start gaining a bonus to hit and AC vs. thought detected opponents, as well as being able to use the entire duration of detect thoughts with concentration checks for free action concentration.

Detective: ?? I'll have to see if dungeonscape is allowed. I am kinda hung up on the high level detect thoyughts fun that can be had by the Cabinet Trickster though :)

Thanks for the input guys! You've given me much about which to think!
*waves hand* This is not the sig you're looking for...
The freely downloadable and searchable 3.5 SRD I prefer (Web)
Camlen, Enniwey

Omen of Peace

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1053
  • Wise Madman
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2008, 11:14:05 PM »
If there is going to be even a little bit of intrigue, you should really get the Vestment of Many Styles (RoE - at the end of the Wondrous Items section). It's the perfect complement for the Change Shape ability.

The Changeling Rogue 1 is a must-have IMO if you want your primary job to be the face. It does mean Warshaper is delayed but you stated you wanted 1) face 2) moderate combat ability...

If Morphic Weapons is interpreted liberally I understand better why you want it. IMC it's one weapon & one attack.
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson

Chemus

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2008, 01:18:09 AM »
Thank you very much for the heads-up! That's much better than Shiftweave, and at the same cost! I dunno why I forgot to look in the same damn book that I'm getting half my character's abilities from, but hey, you had my back. :)

While I don't want to get into an argument as to whether the morphic weapons is a liberal interpretation or not, the text is not specific that it's only one at a time (such as saying "When not already using the Morphic weapons ability..." or "...You may only have one of these weapons formed or enhanced at a time."). The DM has said that as long as there's no major abuse (more than one set of antlers, more than one tail etc. and limit the number of tentacles...) he's cool with it.

I'm limiting my maximum use to the MM's listing of how many attacks can be made with which natural weapons (the only non-specific one there is tentacles).
Quote from: SRD
...one bite attack, one attack per claw or tentacle, one gore attack, one sting attack, or one slam attack (although Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm)
Plus I can't actually grow more arms, heads, tails, etc. with my minor change shape ability than I already have (humanoids have a vestigial tail so that's available). While it's possible that a more open interpretation would allow for parts that didn't exist already on the form, I'll limit it to adding attacks to parts that I already have.

Aaand I pretty much just talked my way out of being able to grow tentacles to scare the kiddies with. I think that that would be very fun and flavorful, even if I couldn't attack with them. But since they aren't on my form, and my body type can't change, I guess I'll have to find out about that.

I feel that that is in the spirit of the rules. Plus, I'll probably only have the bite, a slam and claws going outside of combat, so I'll have to use move actions to get more attacks. That will reduce/remove my ability to make full attacks actions. Getting pounce from lion-spirit totem barbarian would help, but this build is very tight for space. Somehow getting large size would be pretty handy though.

Thanks again for the feedback Omen :)
*waves hand* This is not the sig you're looking for...
The freely downloadable and searchable 3.5 SRD I prefer (Web)
Camlen, Enniwey

Omen of Peace

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1053
  • Wise Madman
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2008, 01:56:11 AM »
Of course your DM is the one that matters. :)

Let me just quickly explain my PoV and then I'll leave at that.

- I agree the text is not very explicit. It does start with "allowing a natural attack" and systematically use "or" when mentioning the weapons that can be grown.

- It's not balanced - I think we can agree on that. (I'm making abstraction of your build here - you're not abusing it after all.) Also I'm not very familiar with Incarnum, but I think getting natural attacks is the schtick of the Totemist: that 1 PrC level does the same as a lot of its levels cheapens it.

- The fact that Warshaper is not systematically recommended to melee druids leads me to believe I'm not the only one interpreting it like that. Gaining a ton of natural attacks & some immunities would easily be worth the CL lost.

's all I have to say. Good luck with your build !
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson

Chemus

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2008, 06:58:36 AM »
You have very good points Omen of Peace. I have no disagreement that lacking better wording it's a bitch to deal with different people's interpretations. Also, I hadn't realized that the Totemist goes in for this kind of thing.

In a game without casters this could hold it's own pretty well, but even at 7th level, I think that the casters will beat this. It's probably tier 3, maybe a veryvery low 2 on JaronK's scale.

You're right about the rogue, BTW. I just want to have my cake and to eat it too! So, I'm lobbying for the Guild Favored/Primary Contact feats so that I can get into Mindspy early (via a Medallion of Thoughts previously borrowed from the guild for training, then returned -OR- an Eternal Wand of Detect Thoughts, UMD'ed and then sold after Cabinet Trickster) then to Warshaper 1, then into Cabinet Trickster.

Looks like this:
Changeling Rogue (sub 1) 1/ Urban Ranger 1 (w/Arcane Hunter: Arcanists as favored enemy from CM 32)/ Lion-Spirit-Totem Barbarian 1/ Swashbuckler 1/ Mindspy 1/ Warshaper 1/ Cabinet Trickster 1

#1 BAB: 4 (+4 Dex), Fort = 8+0, Refl = 6+4, Will = 4+1, HD (2d6 +3d8 +1d10 +1d12), SkP: 68 +30

Feats:
1st: Able Learner, Favored (Vulnerable), Primary Contact (Poor Reflexes)
3rd: Persona Immersion
6th: Multiattack (though the text doesn't say so, I think that I'd have to have this. Or would I? The text doesn't say, so if not, I'd put in Skill Focus:Concentration)

Stats would be:
10 Str
15 Dex +1 at 4th
10 Con
16 Int
12 Wis
14 Cha

Plus here's my Shiny new Gear list!

1250 gp-Chain Shirt+1
6000 gp-Amulet of mighty Fists +1
4500 gp-Circlet of Persuasion
4000 gp-Gloves of Dexterity +2
2000 gp-RoP+1
350 gp-Everlasting rations
200 gp-Everfull Mug
500 gp-Vestment of Many Styles (thanks Omen of Peace! :))
320 gp-MW rapier
80 gp-Ale and whores
*waves hand* This is not the sig you're looking for...
The freely downloadable and searchable 3.5 SRD I prefer (Web)
Camlen, Enniwey

DaveTheMagicWeasel

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
  • If you optimize it, they will come
    • Email
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2008, 12:51:26 PM »
I think Swashbuckler is a mistake - I'd just switch Str and Dex and replace that with a different level - maybe Fighter 1 and try and fit Extra Rage in somewhere?  Otherwise, there are +Dex Rage variants that you could use - the Ferocity from Cityscape Web Enhancement, and Horselord and Implacable (various Dragons) which could be worth asking Caelic about.

In fact, the Favoured/Primary Contact trick isn't worth 2 feat slots imo - just enter Mindspy later.  So if you ditched those you could get Extra Rage in one of those slots.  Then I'd probably replace Swashbuckler 1 with Barbarian 2 for the Improved Trip and use the other free feat for Combat Reflexes.

EDIT - coz I keep typing out ToB suggestions and then realise it's not on Caelic's list and have to delete it.

Chemus

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2008, 01:49:51 PM »
He mentioned that "wolf-lion totem" barbarian mixes aren't the kinda mixed breeds he goes for, though.

The reason for the early entry Mindspy: I was hoping to have the nuts and bolts of the build at the start. I'm going for "I get in their heads. I mess them up. I take advantage of that." To do that, I need more skill ranks than otherwise possible, and I want the changeling rogue sub level for face stuff. And MS gets full BAB; allowing one of my early levels to be +0 BAB.

Swashbuckler is better than fighter (more skillpoints) if I'm taking weapon finesse anyway. The barbarian is there so I can pounce. The rage is only usable once per day, and not for very long, even if I hadn't dumped Con. What does implacable do?

About Dex: It's my opinion that I need the AC, and the mobility. I also feel that I need to make my natural weapons magical (my most expensive item). There's little money for both AC and Str. Although you can PA with natural weapons...only for 1 for 1 though. I'll probably be alternating levels of mindspy, warshaper, and cabinet trickster. That or finishing CT by level 11 and finishing mindspy 4 at 14.

Tripping is problematic at best if your opponent is larger than Medium or Large. I will admit that Combat Reflexes/Improved trip and reach of some kind is kinda sexy though. I just can't figure out how to become large for any duration.
*waves hand* This is not the sig you're looking for...
The freely downloadable and searchable 3.5 SRD I prefer (Web)
Camlen, Enniwey

DaveTheMagicWeasel

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
  • If you optimize it, they will come
    • Email
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2008, 02:44:40 PM »
Implacable Barb just changes Rage to +4 Dex/+4 Con iirc.  I'd check, but my hard drive with it on died :(.

Okay, the way I see it you'e trying to put together a combo (Mindspy+Cabinet Trickster) that isn't really possible at 7th level, made worse by some pretty bad MAD you've lumped yourself with, and it's coming at the expense of your abilities at 7th level itself.

You're trying to do too much at once - something has to give.  Sounds like Mindspy and Cabinet Trickster are non-negotiable, so either Changeling Rogue or Warshaper need to go.  Then depending on which you pick you either make a skill-monkey/face, or you make a melee powerhouse with a sideline in intimidation (i.e. Str and Con focused, with the Goliath Barbarian trick, and then maybe ask for Dungeoncrasher Fighter + Knockback or ToB to round it out).

Personally, I'd abandon Warshaper.  It's cheesy (cheesier than wolf-lion totem imho), the Str bonus is doing nothing for you, trying to get BAB +4 and Changeling Rogue into the same build is forcing you to spend 2 feats on early Mindspy entry.  What I'd do is go back to the drawing board and start from a basic skeleton of:

Changeling Rogue 1
?
?
?
?
Mindspy 1
Cabinet Trickster 1

Which will get you into their heads and taking small advantage (Anticipate +1), but you won't be messing them up until you get Cabinet Trickster 2+.

And looking at that, it simply doesn't scream "melee!" to me.  I think skill-monkey/face/secondary combatant would be a better way to look at it.  Maybe an archer?  Or possibly a Spring Attacker?  Not being on the front lines would also make maintaining detect thoughts easier.

Could also be worth asking Caelic about opening up some other books - Swordsage, Warblade, Factotum, Totemist, Incarnate, Marshal and Binder would all fit in the gap reasonably well depending on your preference.

Finally, you seem to be assuming Flaws are okay, but Unearthed Arcana isn't on the book list.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 02:56:08 PM by DaveTheMagicWeasel »

Chemus

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2008, 03:13:43 PM »
Since the flaws I took will actually affect my character, they're OK'd. I was actually considering frail instead of vulnerable.

You're right, I guess I'm not looking at a combat brute there. I'll have to look into it.
*waves hand* This is not the sig you're looking for...
The freely downloadable and searchable 3.5 SRD I prefer (Web)
Camlen, Enniwey

DaveTheMagicWeasel

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
  • If you optimize it, they will come
    • Email
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2008, 03:46:13 PM »
Summat else I've just thought of - how are you qualifying for Mindspy before Cabinet Trickster?

iirc Mindspy requires Detect Thoughts as spell/SLA, so you need Cabinet Trickster 1 first.

Chemus

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2008, 05:08:01 PM »
The initial description mentions using items to qualify. Thus the Eternal Wand/Medallion of Thoughts on previous levels. The EW, is within character wealth by level...
*waves hand* This is not the sig you're looking for...
The freely downloadable and searchable 3.5 SRD I prefer (Web)
Camlen, Enniwey

Chemus

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2008, 01:56:36 AM »
I'm sorry MagicWeasel, mea culpa, I didn't realize that I didn't have any damage bonuses! You're right of course, dump swashbuckler (no need for weapon finesse). I forgot completely that I'd not be using swashbuckler damage bonus. Damn.

So, Ftr 1 for...power attack, going for leap attack, or just Powerful Charge; +1d8 to one attack on a charge?

15 Str (+1 at 4th, and Belt of Str +2 nets 18)
14 Dex
10 Con
14 Int
12 Wis
14 Cha

Leaves my BAB at +4 (+4 Str), AC at 17 (-1 from vulnerable...perhaps frail instead, dumping HP a little more) Ref save is only reduced by 1 from what I had listed. So -7 HP, or 1 AC...ah, everything will hit me anyway, I'll just keep the -1 AC.

Edit: aaaaand up on mythweavers:Harel (Thaat, Nute, others)
Male/Female N/G Mimic (changeling) Rogue 1/ Ranger 1/ Barbarian 1/ Fighter 1/ Mindspy 1/ Warshaper 1/Cabinet Trickster 1, Level 7, Init +2, HP ??/??, Speed 30
AC 17, Touch 12, Flat-footed 15, Fort +8, Ref +5, Will +5, Base Attack Bonus 4   
+1 Claws (2) +9 (1d4+5, x2)
+1 Bite, Gore, Tail Slap +7 (1d6+3, x2)
+1 Slam, Sting, Tentacle +7 (1d4+3, x2)
+1 Chain Shirt +1 (+5 Armor, +2 Dex)
Abilities Str 18, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 14
Condition None
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 05:21:38 AM by Chemus »
*waves hand* This is not the sig you're looking for...
The freely downloadable and searchable 3.5 SRD I prefer (Web)
Camlen, Enniwey

DaveTheMagicWeasel

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
  • If you optimize it, they will come
    • Email
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2008, 10:37:13 AM »
What strikes me is the 35 hp and AC 17.  And the attack bonus doesn't look too amazing, altho Rage, Anticipate, etc will help.  I wouldn't go for Power Attack/Leap Attack on a natural attacks build, bonus damage tends to be a better option (which brings us back to Swashbuckler and consequent MAD, or sneak attack leading to loss of BAB and Warshaper entry problems).

It has glass cannon written all over it - I think you've perfectly proven my point about trying to do too much.

Plus, trying to buy Int and some physical stats (be it Str, Dex or Con) is pushing your Cha down - and the Detect Thoughts DC isn't that great to begin with.  Not to mention it takes you 3 rounds to trigger anticipate via detect thoughts until you get Mindspy 4, which will delay you getting that all important level 5 of Cabinet Trickster (for detect thoughts at will and stun) or the later Warshaper levels (which aren't essential, but they're pretty nice).

I think the basic concept is a good one, but I just don't see it working at 7th level - both PrCs are late bloomers.  The more I think about it, the more I'm forced to conclude that it's actually Mindspy and Cabinet Trickster causing the problem here - because until you get to Mindspy 4 / Cabinet Trickster 5 they're pretty poor classes.

If you're willing to drop them...

Changeling Rogue 1      Able Learner, Power Attack, Racial Emulation
Goliath Barbarian 1
Fighter 1                    Extra Rage, Combat Reflexes (B)
Fighter 2                    Stand Still (B)
Urban Ranger 1           Urban Tracking (B)
Warshaper 1               Multiattack
Warshaper 2

Then focus on Str, Con and Cha, with just enough Int for your social skills.

Other option I'd suggest is to drop both Warshaper and Mindspy and instead just make a Changeling Rogue (possibly some Bard, or Marshal if allowed) / Cabinet Trickster for a face/sneak character and don't expect to do much in combat.  In which case it could be fun to try and build a character who never rolls an attack in his entire career - based around things like Disturbing Visage, Fade into Violence, Cunning Evasion, etc - read the enemy's thoughts and telepathically communicate their plans to the rest of the party instead.

Maybe (Greater) Kiai Shout for something to do with your standard actions?  It's not the most optimal idea in terms of combat, but I think it would fit Myth quite well (e.g. for the Kiai Shout you drop your disguise and reveal yourself as a slavering demon, panicking the nearby townsfolk).  The fear effects would also increase the chances of your detect thoughts getting through.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 10:40:17 AM by DaveTheMagicWeasel »

Chemus

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
Re: Help with my Changeling? Now 2% easier to read!
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2008, 02:08:37 PM »
You're very right about it being a glass cannon. But anticipate will work on anyone within 60', and I can switch every round after the 3rd round, and keep it up with concentration. About the save: I'll probably have to wait on the Circlet of Persuasion rather than a Cha bonus item then. And perhaps Ability Focus or somesuch later. DC 15 Will ain't bad, it's not really really good, but it ain't bad, and it creeps upward every even level...
*waves hand* This is not the sig you're looking for...
The freely downloadable and searchable 3.5 SRD I prefer (Web)
Camlen, Enniwey