Author Topic: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?  (Read 3363 times)

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Leviathan

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Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« on: July 07, 2011, 04:33:40 AM »
The items like the Crown of White Ravens in ToB, is there any consensus as to whether we should be able to put stances in them as well as just Maneuvers?

Trying to get Absolute Steel stance at a decent level on my Warblade :(

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2011, 04:44:50 AM »
Personally, I allow it, but the tome of battle is self-contradictory on the relevant text.
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Maat_Mons

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2011, 05:10:04 PM »

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2011, 05:21:14 PM »
Quote from: Tome of battle page 5
Stance: A stance is a special type of maneuver.

Like I said, it's self contradictory
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Tshern

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2011, 05:27:50 PM »
Quote from: Tome of battle page 5
Stance: A stance is a special type of maneuver.

Like I said, it's self contradictory
This. Personally I allow players to have either a single maneuver or stance on an item and said item can be used as a prerequisite for other maneuvers...

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Maat_Mons

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2011, 05:48:25 PM »
Quote from: Tome of Battle, page 43
A stance is not a maneuver, but a specific fighting method that you maintain from round to round.

Quote from: Tome of battle, page 5
A stance is a special type of maneuver.

Like I said, it's self contradictory

I had forgotten about that.  Very well, I acknowledge that the rules contradict themselves.  However, I maintain my position that the text on page 43 is more specific than the text on page 5, and thus takes precedence.  I can offer no definitive proof of that tough. 

awaken DM golem

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2011, 07:11:11 PM »
There's an easy parallel to spells.


Maneuver Level = spell level.
Initiator level = caster level.

I've no idea about what type of item, one should be.
Are there any examples, that perhaps could be used as templates?

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2011, 10:19:51 PM »
Maneuver scrolls and resetting traps oh yea :D

How about maneuvers as psionic abilities?

Also shadow maneuvers.... it's inevitable
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Unbeliever

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2011, 12:58:45 AM »
I allow Stances in the items, but you have to qualify for any maneuvers (stances or otherwise) on your own -- you can't use other items for the pre-reqs. 

Although for a lot of builds I might be persuaded not to worry about that either if I were pressed or begged sufficiently.

Endarire

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2011, 05:12:31 AM »
The last time we did this, people in general decided "not by RAW."  Heroics works by RAW.

Maneuver-granting items granting stances is reasonable.
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Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2011, 04:39:39 PM »
Limited Wish can at least produce the effect.


Perhaps the lowest category of what LW can do.

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2011, 03:32:25 PM »
I wouldn't allow it.  Nor would I allow magic item granted maneuvers to let you qualify for other maneuvers.

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011, 03:38:47 PM »
I wouldn't allow it.  Nor would I allow magic item granted maneuvers to let you qualify for other maneuvers.
You can already qualify for feats and prestige classes with items and spell effects.

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2011, 03:39:31 PM »
I wouldn't allow it.  Nor would I allow magic item granted maneuvers to let you qualify for other maneuvers.
You can already qualify for feats and prestige classes with items and spell effects.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2011, 03:53:50 PM »
I have to wonder if Chameleon Crafter can let you sneak ToB into arcane, divine, and psionic lists now...will get back to you with more info if I find any.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2011, 06:29:58 PM »
What about wyrm of war?
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2011, 11:58:22 AM »
What about wyrm of war?

Opening up Tiger Claw, and with feats and ToB items every other maneuver and stance, but that begs the question, do they remain maneuvers taking up spell slots or are they fully converted/convertible?
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awaken DM golem

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2011, 06:07:48 PM »
 :flutter ... very interesting.


I haven't had access to that last Dragon book, for quite a while.
iirc - Wyrm of War doesn't have to use all of it's Sorc stuff, to add in the ToB stuff.
It could retain a small amount of it's casting.
There's an obvious equivalence, 3s = 3s, 5s = 5s, etc.

But I've no idea of the wording at this point.

Endarire

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Re: Stances in ToB Magic Items - Yea/Nay?
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2011, 05:44:37 PM »
The last time we discussed this, the RAW answer we got was "no."  A reasonable answer is, "stance items, yo!"
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"