Challenge! Build the Best Cleric Build Possible!

[Damien_Wilacoth]

If you tack on PrC Paladin 1 to a RKV, and take Battle Blessing, you may cast all your spells as swift actions.  Trade a turn attempt for a Time Stop, anyone?

I thought Battle Blessing would only work on spells on the Paladin list, not just all my spells?

True, but if you enter via the Prestige Paladin class, your 'Paladin' spells are technically your base divine spells - in this case, Cleric.

[dna1]

Alright, here's another question, why is Mystra so awesome?  I only know of two things that give it any incentive, and those are for paladins (a substitution levels and feat).  Is there something beyond this that I'm not aware of besides the domains?

Faiths and Pantheons states a "cleric of Mystra casting in a temple of Mystra may apply a metamagic feat he knows for no increase in spell level."  Aka, free metamagic.  Combine with Initiate of Mystra, and you're one bad MoFo.

Huh...  Now if only a temple of Mystra existed in Ravenloft or the Prime Material plane the campaign takes place between!  So yeah, I don't think I'll be able to take advantage of that (well, besides blowing two plane shifts each day to get there and back, but the DM hinted at not creating characters with a dependence on other planes - which I take as meaning something will come about which will prevent just this).

As for casting in an antimagic zone...  The party has a ton of pendants and circlets that allow just that from a while back.  So it seems like the major benefits of worshiping Mystra are prevented by story contrivance and house ruled items.

Modify: Still, something to keep in mind for next time, especially if I'm in a Faerun campaign.

ravenloft has things brought in by the mist all the time. why couldnt a temple of mystra be in ravenloft?

[Amoren]

ravenloft has things brought in by the mist all the time. why couldnt a temple of mystra be in ravenloft?

I could try asking him, but I doubt he'll not resort to DM fiat when I start abusing Acorn of Far Travel and the temple.  Although my current plan of going Spell + Planning domain seems like they'd fit Mystra.

Anyway, DM shot down Serenity, but did allow Dynamic Priest (as well as Prestige Paladin and Knight of the Raven).  So I suppose I should ask if the 2/3 level dip into Prestige Paladin is worth it (especially with the charisma focus with Dynamic Priest).  Other than that, I just need to iron out domains and feats...  Want to try to stick with 3 persist spells a day to start off.

[Tshern]

Remember to use metamagic rods to extend the spells you persist with Divine metamagic. That's a neat way of doubling your persistent buffs. Jacking up your caster level and bonuses against dispelling (Ring of Enduring Arcana is golden for that) are almost compulsory for this trick to work properly, but from the title of the thread I assume you have nothing against that.

[Amoren]

It'll be about 1/5th my budget I think to get a normal extend rod to do it, but I was strongly leaning towards doing so regardless.  Ring of Enduring Arcana seems pretty useful...  And I sort of wish I had room for Church Inquisitor in this build to get the Inquisition domain and another +4 to the check (but unfortunately, without fractional BAB I'd have to delay Knight of the Raven and Prestige Paladin levels to grab it).  A Ring of Enduring Arcana + Ring of Counterspell (Dispel Magic) might help a lot, but I think only the enduring arcana ring protects against AoE dispels (which my DM throws out a ton of, with very high CL monsters *grumbles*).

A question I had though is about strongarm bracers.  Assuming this cleric/paladin had a Strongarm bracer, and thus used a large sized greatsword (3d6 damage), and then used Righteous Might to increase his size, does that mean the large greatsword would now become a giant greatsword and deal 4d6 damage?  And would the strongarm bracers be worth the extra d6 in damage?

...And now looking through the dispel magic rules, I realize area dispels only remove ONE buff.   No wonder those dispels always felt so harsh, having all of my buffs removed with one spell sucked.  I wonder if I still have to make a spell caster check against the dispeller though, that might just be a house rule. o.o

[PhaedrusXY]

...And now looking through the dispel magic rules, I realize area dispels only remove ONE buff.   No wonder those dispels always felt so harsh, having all of my buffs removed with one spell sucked.  I wonder if I still have to make a spell caster check against the dispeller though, that might just be a house rule. o.o

It sounds like your DM isn't using the rules correctly, and needs to reread Dispel Magic. Area Dispel only knocks off one buff, as you've noticed. The caster of the Dispel is the one that makes a caster level check, against a DC set by the target's caster level. It's not an opposed check. The Ring of Counterspells can hold up to 6th level spells, also. So it can actually work against Greater Dispel Magic, once you start facing that. And you can wear two of them, since they're cheap and you can likely afford it. 

[Amoren]

...And now looking through the dispel magic rules, I realize area dispels only remove ONE buff.   No wonder those dispels always felt so harsh, having all of my buffs removed with one spell sucked.  I wonder if I still have to make a spell caster check against the dispeller though, that might just be a house rule. o.o

It sounds like your DM isn't using the rules correctly, and needs to reread Dispel Magic. Area Dispel only knocks off one buff, as you've noticed. The caster of the Dispel is the one that makes a caster level check, against a DC set by the target's caster level. It's not an opposed check. The Ring of Counterspells can hold up to 6th level spells, also. So it can actually work against Greater Dispel Magic, once you start facing that. And you can wear two of them, since they're cheap and you can likely afford it. 

Yeah, I'll have to bring that up today.  Stripping all my buffs off with one spell is just way to brutal.

That being said, I know about using Greater Dispel Magic in the ring, but I need to cast the spell into the ring for it to counter it.  And GDM is a 6th level spell, so I've got another two levels to go before I can cast it.

[PhaedrusXY]

...And now looking through the dispel magic rules, I realize area dispels only remove ONE buff.   No wonder those dispels always felt so harsh, having all of my buffs removed with one spell sucked.  I wonder if I still have to make a spell caster check against the dispeller though, that might just be a house rule. o.o

It sounds like your DM isn't using the rules correctly, and needs to reread Dispel Magic. Area Dispel only knocks off one buff, as you've noticed. The caster of the Dispel is the one that makes a caster level check, against a DC set by the target's caster level. It's not an opposed check. The Ring of Counterspells can hold up to 6th level spells, also. So it can actually work against Greater Dispel Magic, once you start facing that. And you can wear two of them, since they're cheap and you can likely afford it. 

Yeah, I'll have to bring that up today.  Stripping all my buffs off with one spell is just way to brutal.

That being said, I know about using Greater Dispel Magic in the ring, but I need to cast the spell into the ring for it to counter it.  And GDM is a 6th level spell, so I've got another two levels to go before I can cast it.

Might be worth buying a scroll... /shrug

[Daniel678]

It is only 660g to have an Wizard or Cleric NPC cast Greater Dispel Magic into the ring for you. That cost should be trivial compared to the cost of the ring itself.

Bards can cast it for you for 650g. The caster level will be 2 higher too although in this case that won't matter.

Don't get it in scroll form. It will cost you 1000 more gold.

[Amoren]

It is only 660g to have an Wizard or Cleric NPC cast Greater Dispel Magic into the ring for you. That cost should be trivial compared to the cost of the ring itself.

Bards can cast it for you for 650g. The caster level will be 2 higher too although in this case that won't matter.

Don't get it in scroll form. It will cost you 1000 more gold.

Hmmm, good idea, but don't I have to recharge the ring every time it counters something?  Still, should only need to do it a few times before hitting 12 and being able to cast it myself whenever I need too.

Still wouldn't mind opinions on if the second/third level of Prestige Paladin is worth it (it'll net me at least +10 to all saves alone by the time I reach 20th level, and a fun but not exactly strong mount!).

Edit: ...Here's a thought, can't I use the Candle of Invocation to increase my caster level by 2 (for the purposes of spells known and uses?).  The DM is clearly not going to let the gate thing work in Ravenloft (or it will, but whatever Solar I summon will be pissed with me unless it was an emergency), and in his campaign Wish/Miracle don't exist.  But the +2 CL bonus WOULD put me back on track (or above) for spells/known and casted...

Any thoughts on this?  From the way I've read it, each candle lasts for four hours and only requires being burned when I prepare spells (which lasts one hour).  Therefor, each candle can increase my caster level for four days?  Is there any way to increase the duration/effect/reusability of the candle beyond this, or is it just not worth it?

[Amoren]

Alright, the worst has happen and my Bone Knight, unfortunately, is now inside a black dragon's stomach (being dive bombed by an adult black dragon after your warlock took himself out of the fight by taking 15 wisdom damage kinda goes badly).  So now I've got a weak to work out the stats for my new character.

I'm going with the Prestige Paladin/Knight of the Raven focus (or at least, Knight of the Raven.  Doesn't HAVE to be a Prestige Paladin but it would be nice).  Character starts at level 11, with the standard WPL rules.  Still no alternate class features, still no templates, all complete series is in.  Dynamic Priest was allowed, but not Serenity.  He did also seem to 'dislike' the idea for using a Large Greatsword with strongarm bracers, so I guess that frees up some gold.  I also plan to use bastards swords because of this, because there's a paladin sword which has been in the party which hasn't seen much use (Intelligent Greatsword, I don't know what it does besides being a +2 sword and giving its wielders exotic weapon proficiency: bastard sword).

Stats are 14, 14, 16, 16, 18, 18 (thank the dice gods!).

Current build is Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 18 (20, with level ups).  Human Cleric 4/Prestige Paladin 3/Knight of the Raven 4.  Domains: Spell, Planning, Sun (bonus).
Feats: Dynamic Priest, Persist Spell, Power Attack, DMM: Persist, Battle Blessing.
Etc: Planning on using a medium metamagic rod (persist) to persist cast 4 buffs over two days.  Not sure if the extra prestige paladin levels are worth the caster level loss (immunity to fear, +7 (and more) to all saves,

Whoever has an idea for a more flavorful or better build utilizing Knight of the Raven (besides the Super Holy Warrior build, since we've already got one warlock in the party!) would be greatly appreciated.  Some way to eek out more turn undead attempts would be great (night sticks don't stack, by the way).  But unless I can find a way to get more feat slots that doesn't seem possible (although I was going to talk to my DM about changing the domain power bonus for certain domains, like making strength grant Power Attack rather than its current effect). 

[Unbeliever]

I find it kind of hilarious that your DM is down on the idea of using the Strongarm Bracers, a fairly minor magic item, but is fine w/ Battle Blessing (which applies to all of your spells?  I rule that it only applies to those on the normal Paladin spell list, btw, as a kidn of minor restriction, but that's just me) and DMM(persist). 

That shit never ceases to amaze me. 

I'd just take Prestige Paladin till you get Divine Grace.  Besides that, the build seems totally solid.  I like Channeled Divine Shield and Divine Retaliation for buffs, especially if you take some feats or magic items that let you take hits for your allies. 

I can't see you needing more than 4 buffs, honestly.  Especially when you cast many if not all your spells as a swift action.  Holy Sword is nice, but kind of obviates the magic bastard sword.  And, why are you using a rod of persist rather than a rod of extend spell? 

[Amoren]

Yack!  I meant rod of extend, sorry.  And yes, I was using Battle Blessing to only apply to spells that are on the paladin spell list anyway (but that still gives me swift action cure spells, which will actually be really useful in this game).  As for DMM:Persist, my DM's already amazed by the constant buffs I have going up, but its sort of a compromise.  The party gets a buffer and healer, and I get to actually enjoy playing a Cleric so long as I don't out do the fighter. xD

Then again, thinking about it, strongarm bracers with a large greatsword wouldn't quite be the level of taking the spell domain and persisting wraithstrike (but that's sort of the warlocks shtick at the moment).

[Amoren]

Alright, so, I'm pondering between taking two levels of Radiant Servent of Pelor over the three level dip in Prestige Paladin...

I'd gain auto-empower for healing (which I actually do need to do since most of the party is low optimized, and at least with Battle Blessing it'll be a swift action for most of the cure line), extra greater turnings (very useful in Ravenloft, and even after that part the main big bad is a Mystic Theurge likely to have a lot of undead), but am forced to use Pelor's domains (which means no bonus feat, so I'd likely have to drop Power Attack from the build, but glory/travel aren't bad).

-Vs-

+7 (currently) to all saves, Immunity to disease, immunity to fear (and fear resist to the rest of the party!), free mount, more lay on hands healing, and freedom of choice to domains (although I do want to keep this Knight of the Raven to a very light focus, which doesn't fit having the planning and spell domains...), and a loss of caster level.

So far I'm actually leaning towards two points in Radiant Servant, since I guess the party could use the extra healing more than the other buffs - and my last cleric had plenty of bonuses to save with his +3 from Recitation.  That, and the loss of the second spell level might not be worth it as the only divine caster in the party (and only other actual caster besides an Unseen Seer with 2 rogue levels).

Another question, I was thinking of a least chain metamagic rod, but don't know what buffing spells it'll work on.  All the good ones seem to have a range of touch or already affect the entire party. /:

[kremti]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=345.0

If you check the list, most of them are Sor/Wiz spells...

-K

[Amoren]

So, didn't have enough gold to buy the Chain Metamagic Rod (Oh well, not a big loss).  I also don't have enough money to buy anything more than a MW Bastard Sword because I spent it all on nice stuff, but the Intelligent Paladin Bastard Sword the party is just keeping on the warlock's belt might be able to remedy that. xD

Anyway, my DM approved a custom Domain for use by my Character, called the Anti-Undeath Domain (yeah, it needs a better name).
Domain Power: Extra Turning, Spells: 1) Detect Undead, 2) Consecrate, 3) Spark of Life, 4) Deathward, 5) Disrupting Weapon, 6) Undeath to Death, 7) Restoration, Greater, 8) Sunburst, 9) Undeath's Eternal Foe

This means I have to give up one of my current domains, either Strength or Glory.  Glory would make me a true greater turning undead zapping machine (power is +2 turning check and an extra 1d6 HD turned), but Strength Devotion is an extra slam attack once a minute per day (I'm going to be out of regular turning attempts now that I can actually persist 3 spells a day with them).  I guess the deciding factor would be spells, so whichever one has the better spells I guess I go with that one.

Also, another question.  I'm going to have 6 spells persisted at one time now (3 per day, extended with the megamagic rod so rotate them out).  Naturally, Divine Power, Recitation, and Righteous Wraith of the Faithful will be used - which leaves three more.  I don't want to persist Righteous Might (being permanently large has several issues my DM would love to have show up if I did so), and permanent holly transformation, lesser keeps my form at medium so I can't Righteous Might later (DM ruling when my Bone Knight tried to do it in the combat he died in).  Mass Lesser Vigor is an option, but I can't extend it outside of preparing it as such (which is doable, a 4th level spell slot though...), and I can't cast Vigorous Circle until next level.

So, I'm looking for 2-3 good spells to persist, mostly from levels 4-5 but I can just prepare them with extend if they're 1-3.

[Daniel678]

Since you are starting at level 11 you might be to play an Arcane Spellcaster 1/Rainbow Servant 10 provided that your DM rules in your favor on the Rainbow Servant spellcasting table. After that you could go into War Weaver to increase your buffing ability.

[Amoren]

Since you are starting at level 11 you might be to play an Arcane Spellcaster 1/Rainbow Servant 10 provided that your DM rules in your favor on the Rainbow Servant spellcasting table. After that you could go into War Weaver to increase your buffing ability.

...As soon as you tell me how I get 3rd level Arcane spells at level one, sure. o.o  (I mean, second level arcane spells, I understand, but third?)  Also, he's previously stated that table trumps text in his opinion.

[Havok4]

There are several ways to do it, precocious apprentice combined with earth spell or sanctum spell works.