and that Monks are better than Experts because they can survive well by tanking their Wis and Str and pumping Int and Cha
Now, you see, this is why I call the Giacomo here a fake. The original had several defining traits that never changed, no matter how much we argued it:
- He believed that Core-only was balanced.
- He believed that Monks were SAD because they could pump Wis and never worry about needing Con for HP, since his AC could get "so high".
The Giacomo here has violated these traits in such a way that does not follow the "logic" the original used. I am convinced that it is not him.
If I can get four other people to back me up on that assumption, I'd like to put an end to this whole problem.
Well, he took Carmendine Monk to get his AC up, so he's still trying that trick. But I figured it was possible he just matured enough to figure out that core only isn't balanced. And he's still showing a blatant lack of understanding of the value of HP, considering he's claiming that 18-20HD zombies with 10.5 HP/HD are fragile and die often but that his Monks with their moderate Con and 12 HD (at the same level) are total survivable.
Plus, he's still got the "if I fake it poorly, that's equivalent to doing it well" mentality. Just as he used to argue that having cross class UMD was about as good as actually just being a spellcaster, he's now trying to claim that spending Skill Prodigy and Carmendine Monk to get some of the skills of an Expert is as good as just being an Expert. That lack of understanding of things like opportunity cost is pretty standard. Plus you've got the constant goalpost shifting and the gleeful claims of victory even when his arguments make no sense...
So yeah, I think it's the same guy.
Wow, and all of a sudden two 18 HD Zombie Hydras turn up - zombies which we already clarified CANNOT use the hydras ability to move and still attack (so are always limited to 1 attack/round), since that is neither part of the monster statistics, nor the special abilities (it is the text between, remember?).
No, YOU claimed they couldn't do it, but they can. A standard attack action for a Hydra is attacking with all their heads. This is not a special ability, it's just what their attack is. The Zombie rules say they can only make a single attack action: "Zombies have poor reflexes and can perform only a single move action or attack action each round." Such an action with a Hydra is 9 attacks. That's just what the rules are, and if you'd like to claim otherwise you'll have to prove otherwise with rules (just looking at the Hydra entry in the SRD and the Zombie entry in the SRD yields 9 attacks as a single attack action, which is what Zombies do). As for moving and still attacking, Zombie Hydras can charge and attack (as normal per the Zombie rules, though note they only move their speed when doing so).
Though note these Zombies are no tougher than any other 9HD critter turned into a zombie via Animate Dead, so this is irrelevant, it just shows they're solid attackers.
And you should really read aloud to yourself what you write here: you "compared what you assumed was a leveled up top 12 version of my 7th level Monk"! Incredible.
I see no way for your level 7 Monk to get up to anywhere near the durability of these creatures, following the build techniques you were using. Would you like to try to prove otherwise?
So, instead of comparing a 7th level monk I posted to the CR 9 storm giant skeleton, you compared it to a build that DOES NOT EVEN EXIST - which you just made up in your mind and which you thought I'd probably come up with. I did not believe you would surpass your previous level of double-standards, but comparing a CR 9 monster to a 12th level fictional monk build that I never did beats it all.
I simply followed the pattern you were already doing. Same race, same stats, add some wealth and 5 Monk levels. That's not exactly difficult. Even if you put all your wealth into defense (making yourself a worthless turtle) I don't think you could do it. But feel free to try to prove me wrong. Extend your level 7 Monk 5 levels and show how durable he is. Don't forget, even at level 12 your Monk will have only 2/3 the HD, and at would need a con of 22 just to have the same HP/HD as the 9HD zombie (which would be enough to have 2/3 the HP, roughly). And don't forget the immunities and automated healing effects.
If you'd like this to be easier, we can just say it's a level 8 Adept with an Orange Ioun Stone or some other single caster level boost (Bead of Kharma, perhaps?) that controls the Hydras. Then you can compare your Monk at level 8 to it and it'll be pretty close. Would that be better? Because yes, an Adept could pull this off by level 8.
JaronK
