Author Topic: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?  (Read 7984 times)

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iconoplast

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Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« on: June 06, 2011, 04:56:23 PM »
So, Artificer Lv 1-2, it's all about the scrolls.  By level 3 you've got craft wondrous and better things to do with your reserve, but when you start, you've got 60 xp in scrolls to spend across 26 expected encounters.  Six first level scrolls gives one second level scroll, so I feel like there's an incentive to stick to first level spells.

We're looking for spells that don't have saving throws (Since they're all DC 11 saves) or rounds/level duration, but still provide some oomph.

Here's the list so far:
(Thanks to http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/FindSpell.php for making questions like this searchable)
Regularly Useful:
Lesser Vigor (SpC) Actually cheaper than a wand of the same name. 
Snakes Swiftness (SpC) Like Haste, but worse in every imaginable way.  Still, it lets you hit people with a fighter, and probably does more damage in a round than anything else you're going to see for a while.

Situationally Useful:
Bless Weapon (SRD) Bypass DR as if Good/Magic.  Auto-confirm crits.  1 minute duration.
Lesser Restoration (SRD) When you want it, you need it.  Two levels early via Paladin list.
Mighty Wallop (SpC) If your Fighter's swinging a bludgeoning weapon, this will make him giddy.
Resist Energy (SRD) 10 minutes of resist 10. 
Scholars Touch (RoD) - I just imagine there will come a moment when you pull this balled up crumpled scroll from the bottom of your haversack and are just so stoked you've been carrying it around for the last umpteen encounters. (This spell lets you read a book in a round.
Sunstroke (Sand) - It's 2d6 nonlethal damage, no to-hit, no save.  A Fort save prevents the Fatigued condition, but not the damage.  
Comprehend Languages: (SRD) Utility, through & through. Solid duration as well.  This is probably what Scholar's Touch was balled up with.
Disguise Self: (SRD) Utility, carries a fairly sufficient duration.
Hide from Undead: (SRD) When you need it, you'll be very happy you packed it.  10 minute duration.
Shillelagh: (SRD) If you're going melee, this beats Magic Weapon.
Goodberry: (SRD) Acts as not only minor healing but also as emergency rations. Very good spell.
Entangle: (SRD) Lasts for a minute.  If they save, they have half movement across 80 feet of entangling terrain.  And they have to save every round they're in there.
Power Word: Pain: (RotD) Basically no save, 1d6 dam/rd until you're dead.


Snakes Swiftness is a great great direct damage spell at low levels, when most spells are doing 1d6-1d8 damage, but the fighter's swinging for at least 1d12+6.
Lesser Vigor as a scroll is actually cheaper than as a wand (25g/11hp instead of 30g/11hp), but every bit as great for out of combat healing.

I'm tempted to advise a 3-way split of 1/3 snakes swiftness scrolls, 1/3 vigor, and 1/3 other utility scrolls. 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 07:05:31 AM by iconoplast »

dark_samuari

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2011, 05:16:16 PM »
Here are some useful ones from a quick scan of the SRD:

Comprehend Languages: Utility, through & through. Solid duration as well.
Disguise Self: Utility, carries a fairly sufficient duration.
Hide from Undead: When you need it, you'll be very happy you packed it.
Shillelagh: This is if you are favoring melee over ranged damage.
Goodberry: Acts as not only minor healing but also as emergency rations. Very good spell.
Entangle: Sufficient duration and reliable battlefield control upwards of 40ft.

borg286

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2011, 03:39:22 AM »
artificer guide .  I feel you'll find quite a bit in there.

iconoplast

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2011, 06:03:46 AM »
artificer guide .  I feel you'll find quite a bit in there.

I dig your guide, and had read it before - but I'm looking for something a little more specific here.  Artificer guides focus on high level stunts, once you've got a +5 custom item of UMD and are churning out Wondrous Items at the very least.  I wanted to look at what to do with your craft reserve for levels 1 & 2.

Scrolls have a DC of the level of the spell (In this case, 1, unless the spell is better than *four* level 1 scrolls) plus the intelligence modifier of the minimum intelligence needed to cast the spell (in this case 0).  So a level 1 scroll has a DC 11, and a level 2 scroll has a DC 13. 

DC 11 means that enemies are saving against it half the time or more unless they have a negative modifier.

In addition, the 1 round duration means that some spells (Grease) lose a lot of their potency.

So I was looking for spells that either (1) occur earlier than they should (Lesser Restoration), or (2) have a demonstrable effect that doesn't have a save or a CL-dependant duration (Snakes Swiftness, Lesser Vigor).

Not to say I don't appreciate your guide, I'm just looking at this as more of a Quickstart Artificer-ish question, specifically asking what a good load-out of scrolls is for the first 2 levels.

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2011, 06:27:58 AM »
power word (pain)
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iconoplast

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2011, 06:33:26 AM »
power word (pain)

...that's your answer to everything.

(No, seriously - good call.  No save, duration that doesn't depend on CL, just a nice steady stream of reliable damage.)

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2011, 07:08:25 AM »
For low levels it's very good. A spell that potentialy deals 4d6 - 16d6 damage is awesome. You'll probably have to use guerilla tactics though  :eh
Imagive a group of low level sorcerers casting power word pain and then running away :p
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Shadowhunter

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2011, 05:09:28 PM »
power word (pain)

Good, someone said it so I didn't have to. :)
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Phoenix00

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 03:09:40 AM »
If trapsmith is allowed, than Haste is pretty good much better than Snake's Swiftness.

Now Haste at 1 CL is still good, but Haste at 3 CL is much better, 3 allies buffed and 3 round duration.

Grab a horse/riding dog/whatever and use the Haste to buff the party and if the encounter is really nasty do a power word pain.  Or do the exact opposite.

rasmuswagner

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2011, 06:59:29 AM »
If trapsmith is allowed, than Haste is pretty good much better than Snake's Swiftness.

Now Haste at 1 CL is still good, but Haste at 3 CL is much better, 3 allies buffed and 3 round duration.


But a 1. or 2. level Artificer can only make scrolls with CL 1 or 2.

CyMage

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2011, 09:43:17 AM »
Scrolls have a DC of the level of the spell (In this case, 1, unless the spell is better than *four* level 1 scrolls) plus the intelligence modifier of the minimum intelligence needed to cast the spell (in this case 0).  So a level 1 scroll has a DC 11, and a level 2 scroll has a DC 13. 

DC 11 means that enemies are saving against it half the time or more unless they have a negative modifier.

That's only for scrolls randomly generated.  If they're made by a specific character the creators ability sets the DC.  So a first level Artificer with 18 Int would make a DC 15 scroll.

iconoplast

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2011, 10:03:24 AM »
Scrolls have a DC of the level of the spell (In this case, 1, unless the spell is better than *four* level 1 scrolls) plus the intelligence modifier of the minimum intelligence needed to cast the spell (in this case 0).  So a level 1 scroll has a DC 11, and a level 2 scroll has a DC 13. 

DC 11 means that enemies are saving against it half the time or more unless they have a negative modifier.

That's only for scrolls randomly generated.  If they're made by a specific character the creators ability sets the DC.  So a first level Artificer with 18 Int would make a DC 15 scroll.

Man do I want you to be right.  The only reference I could find for scroll DCs was the one about minimum intelligence.  Where is the created scroll DC reference?

rot42

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2011, 01:29:52 PM »
Scrolls have a DC of the level of the spell (In this case, 1, unless the spell is better than *four* level 1 scrolls) plus the intelligence modifier of the minimum intelligence needed to cast the spell (in this case 0).  So a level 1 scroll has a DC 11, and a level 2 scroll has a DC 13. 

DC 11 means that enemies are saving against it half the time or more unless they have a negative modifier.

That's only for scrolls randomly generated.  If they're made by a specific character the creators ability sets the DC.  So a first level Artificer with 18 Int would make a DC 15 scroll.

Man do I want you to be right.  The only reference I could find for scroll DCs was the one about minimum intelligence.  Where is the created scroll DC reference?

I believe that this is incorrect. According to the DMG (p. 214), "[f]or a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell." It then proceeds to discuss that staffs are an exception to the general rule. There is the Residual Magic feat in Complete Mage (p. 46) that allows you to use your own ability modifier and feats for casting a scroll in some circumstances, though. The item creation rules let you create a scroll at a higher caster level, but not a higher DC (unless you Heighten the spell). On a quick glance at Artificer I do not see an ability allowing them to ignore the general rule, but I might have missed something.

Sobolev

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2011, 02:44:27 PM »
Animate Dead.

It's on some obscure class list as a level 1 spell.
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Gavinfoxx

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2011, 03:44:37 PM »
Cure Moderate Wounds, as a level 1 spell. ;) ;)
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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2011, 05:43:32 PM »
How are you getting past the high UMD DC?  Let's say you have a +14 at level 2 and need to make a DC 21 for a level 1 scroll, you have to roll a 7 for success, meaning that 30% of the time your XP and gp are going down the drain.  Level 1 that's a greater impact and also harder to get the high UMD bonus.
Wouldn't your gp be better spent with reliable mundane stuff?
I can see having them on hand so your wizard can cast them, but then there's optimization for a team mate instead of preparing yourself.

iconoplast

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2011, 06:44:36 PM »
The UMD check is rough.  But, it's either scribe  scrolls, or let your Craft Reserve go to waste.  You think the Artificer should just bite the bullet & work on scrolls that will prove useful later, once he's got his UMD up?

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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2011, 07:25:55 PM »
Be an Azurin and get those goggles?
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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2011, 07:26:29 PM »
I can see having them on hand so your wizard can cast them, but then there's optimization for a team mate instead of preparing yourself.

How would that help? Scrolls made by artificers are neither arcane or divine. Wont the spell on the scroll have to be both arcane and on the wizard spell list before he can use it without resorting to UMD also?
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Re: Best Scrolls for a low level Artificer?
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2011, 08:04:09 PM »
Well, if the party Wizard or Cleric or Archivist or whatever contributes by casting said spell into the scroll as it is being made by the Artificer, than it ends up of the type as it is cast.  Which is why Tier 1 classes work together really really well...
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