Author Topic: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper  (Read 3086 times)

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Bortasz

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Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« on: June 03, 2011, 05:35:59 PM »
The MG allow
All races witch LA 0
32 Point Buy
starting level 3
The Last level will be 6-7
Full mechanic
Gold 2700

I was thinking about something like that:

Race Kalashatar

Int 18

Shaper
Dex or Constitution 14
Dex or constitution 12
Rest 10

Telepath
Charisma 14
Dex or constitution 12
Rest 10

Shaper Feats
1. Overchanel
1. Talented
3. Psionic Meditation

Telepath Feat
1. Psicrystal Affinity
1. ???
3. Psionic Meditation

Shaper powers 1
Astral construct
Inertial Armour
Vigor
Entangling Ectoplasm
Minor Creation
Powers 2
Crystal Storm
Levitate or ???

Telepath Powers
Charm
Vigor
Inertial Armour
Entangling Ectoplasm
???
Powers 2
Aversion or Read thoughts
Crystal Storm

Items
Healing Belt 750
Darkwood Heavy Shield 257
Amber amulet of Vermin (Giant Praying Mantis) 700
Total 1707

I'm em open to all suggestions and advice.
Radical Taoist
[spoiler]It bears saying: if up against a logic-impervious DM who thinks Core is balanced and Psionics*  isn't, then the most powerful way to disprove that is to play a C.o.D. (Cleric or Druid). Noncore material will not be necessary unless you are going for pure overkill (Draconic Wildshape? Divine Metamagic?). So by all means, if you must win that argument, take you C.o.D. to town. Annihilate the opposition. Make the NPCs and other players scream "Oh no, it's C.o.D.zilla!!!!!" in badly dubbed English. Breathe radioactive fire. Knock down buildings. Then stomp out of the burning Tokyo that is the ruins of the game and swim off into the ocean, seeking a DM with some basic cognitive functions. [/profile]

Saeomon

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2011, 06:19:01 PM »
You're on the right track. Here's a few comments:

At your current level, and with your planned Wisdom score, you cannot take Psionic Meditation. That feat isn't available until 4th level, and requires a minimum Wisdom of 13.

Overchannel is great. Some folks say it's better not to take Talented and soak the damage with Vigor. I disagree. I'd rather open with a zero- self-damage Overchanneled power and see where things stand than open with a full round of buffing. So I think your three feats should be Overchannel, Talented and Psicrystal Affinity for either build.

Drop Inertial Armor and take Matter Agitation, instead. As a Psion, you don't suffer arcane spell failure. Wear Masterwork Studded Leather until you an get a Mithral Chain Shirt. You'll save on PP and have an efficient direct damage power. Matter Agitation only starts to lose it's usefulness around the level where your campaign will end.

Levitate is very useful at low levels. Take it if you go with the Shaper.

If you go with Telepath, take Mindlink as your last 1st level power. Then you can definitely get into the Thrallherd PrC for the final levels of your campaign. The Thrall you gain will make you the GOD of the group.

I'd recommend going Human, for the bonus feat, and then take Hidden Talent with that feat. You'll only have 5 fewer PP when all is said and done, and you'll get an extra 1st level power from ANY class list. If you go Shaper, take Charm. If you go Telepath, take Astral Construct.



Bortasz

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2011, 06:53:01 PM »
Feats
1. Overchanel
1. Talented
1. Wild Talent Astral Construct
3. Psicrystal Affinity

Powers
Astral construct
Matter Agitation
Vigor
Entangling Ectoplasm
Charm
Mindlink
Powers 2
Crystal Storm
Levitate


Int 18
Charisma 14
Constitution 12

Or Aiming to Psionic Meditation and Charisma Wisdom 13

Power Points 19

Skills (2basic+4Int+1Human)*(4first level +second and third level)= 7*6=42
Concentration 6
Bluff 5
Diplomacy 6
Sense Motive 5
Gather Information 5
I have 15 skill points left

Items
Healing Belt 750
Darkwood Heavy Shield 257
Amber amulet of Vermin (Giant Praying Mantis) 700
Masterwork Studded Leather 175
Total 1832 I have left 968

Weapon: Short spear?  
Everlasting Rations?
Or Eternal Dorje I ? (Similar to Eternal Wand. I try to convince to that my GM)

Two Flaws are allowed,.
Radical Taoist
[spoiler]It bears saying: if up against a logic-impervious DM who thinks Core is balanced and Psionics*  isn't, then the most powerful way to disprove that is to play a C.o.D. (Cleric or Druid). Noncore material will not be necessary unless you are going for pure overkill (Draconic Wildshape? Divine Metamagic?). So by all means, if you must win that argument, take you C.o.D. to town. Annihilate the opposition. Make the NPCs and other players scream "Oh no, it's C.o.D.zilla!!!!!" in badly dubbed English. Breathe radioactive fire. Knock down buildings. Then stomp out of the burning Tokyo that is the ruins of the game and swim off into the ocean, seeking a DM with some basic cognitive functions. [/profile]

Saeomon

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2011, 08:28:37 PM »
Feats
1. Overchanel
1. Talented
1. Wild Talent Astral Construct
3. Psicrystal Affinity

Powers
Astral construct
Matter Agitation
Vigor
Entangling Ectoplasm
Charm
Mindlink
Powers 2
Crystal Storm
Levitate


Int 18
Charisma 14
Constitution 12

Or Aiming to Psionic Meditation and Charisma Wisdom 13

Power Points 19

Skills (2basic+4Int+1Human)*(4first level +second and third level)= 7*6=42
Concentration 6
Bluff 5
Diplomacy 6
Sense Motive 5
Gather Information 5
I have 15 skill points left

Items
Healing Belt 750
Darkwood Heavy Shield 257
Amber amulet of Vermin (Giant Praying Mantis) 700
Masterwork Studded Leather 175
Total 1832 I have left 968

Weapon: Short spear?  
Everlasting Rations?
Or Eternal Dorje I ? (Similar to Eternal Wand. I try to convince to that my GM)

Two Flaws are allowed,.

Looking good, looking good. I'm going to assume you're aiming for Thrallherd, so I'll tailor my final suggestions to that goal.

Since Flaws are allowed and you're stuck at low levels, I say you get your other Thrallherd prerequisite out of the way and take Inquisitor in one of those two new feat slots. As feats go, it's not that good, but you've gotta take it to get into that PrC.

For your other new feat, Psionic Body is looking miiiiiighty attractive. With the feats you've chosen, plus Inquisitor and Psionic Body, you'll have six Psionic feats, which means 12 bonus HP. At third level, with a 12 Con, you'll have, at most, 15 HP. Almost doubling that number ain't bad at all! I'd counsel you to take something else if your campaign was going beyond 7th level, but it's a good choice within the context of the game you're going to be in.

Your best choices for Flaws are Noncombatant and either Inattentive, Murky-Eyed, or Vulnerable.

Your best choice for a main weapon is a Light Crossbow. You'll want to stay at range. Trade the Darkwood Heavy Shield for a Darkwood Buckler so you can use it with the crossbow.

With just over 900 GP left over, my first thought for your last item is a Hand of the Mage. Awesome utility, outside of combat.

Bortasz

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2011, 02:59:11 AM »
Yup I go to the Trallherd Prc ;)

Flaws
1. Non-combatant (-2 to male attack role)
2. Inattentive (-4 on listen and spot check)

Feats
1. Psionic Body
1. Inquisitor
1. Overchanel
1. Talented
1. Wild Talent Astral Construct
3. Psicrystal Affinity

Powers
Astral construct
Matter Agitation
Vigor
Entangling Ectoplasm
Charm
Mindlink
Powers 2
Crystal Storm
Levitate

Question What bether
Int 17(I will increase Int on the 4 lvl)
Charisma 14
Constitution 12
Wisdom 13 (Required to Inquisitor and Psionic meditation

or

Int 18
Charisma 13
Wisdom 13
Rest 10

First more Diplomacy, Concentration and HP
Second more Skill points and Power Points

HP 25 or 22

Power Points 13lvl+2Talent+4Int = 19 or 21

Skills (2basic+3Int+1Human)*(4first level +second and third level)= 6*6=36 or 42
Concentration 6
Bluff 5
Diplomacy 6
Sense Motive 5
Gather Information 5
Knowledge Nobility 5
Knowledge Psionic 1
Psicraft 1

Witch extra 6 skill points I will take Six knowledge  to 1

Tricks
Collector of Stories

Items
Healing Belt 750
Masterwork buckler  172
Amber amulet of Vermin (Giant Praying Mantis) 700
Leather 10
Light crossbow 35
Total 1450+182+35=1667 Left 1033

Hand of the Mage 900 gold Casting at will Mage hand (0 lvl spell)
or
Eternal Dorje (First level Power) 820 gold 2/day cast 1 lvl power

Question
I understand that Psicrystal get a Feats. How many an on witch Hit dice?
Also what the Psicrystal Feats are the best?

« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 05:38:06 AM by Bortasz »
Radical Taoist
[spoiler]It bears saying: if up against a logic-impervious DM who thinks Core is balanced and Psionics*  isn't, then the most powerful way to disprove that is to play a C.o.D. (Cleric or Druid). Noncore material will not be necessary unless you are going for pure overkill (Draconic Wildshape? Divine Metamagic?). So by all means, if you must win that argument, take you C.o.D. to town. Annihilate the opposition. Make the NPCs and other players scream "Oh no, it's C.o.D.zilla!!!!!" in badly dubbed English. Breathe radioactive fire. Knock down buildings. Then stomp out of the burning Tokyo that is the ruins of the game and swim off into the ocean, seeking a DM with some basic cognitive functions. [/profile]

Summerstorm

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2011, 05:58:13 AM »
Regarding feats on a Psicrystal:

As far as i read the discussions about it and the text itself... i don't think they get feats. Most people just desperately wish for it, since it isn't as explicitly stated as it is with familiars.

Overall the gist of it is: They DO have virtual HD, depending on their masters, for effects. But they never GAIN any of those. They are just there if you need them. They don't have a progression, and it is never stated that they level up like, for example, a cohort or an animal companion.

Well, i wished they would get some... but i really can't say they do with a clear conscience.

Oh, and yeah i am building a psion/Thrallherd myself just now.

I got this:
[spoiler]
(old) Elan, Lvl 8: Psion (Telepath) 5, Anarchic Initiate 1, Thrallherd 2
Feats:
1: Inquisitor
1: Empower Power (+50% variable effect, loses focus)
3: Overchannel (+1 CL for 1D8 damage, +2 CL for 3D8)
5: Talented (No damage from enhancing 3rd and lower powers)
6: Psicrystal Affinity

If i get my Thrallherd denied i will pack "Enhanced Elan Resilience" as a feat... absorbing 4 HP damage for one PP is nice in an emergency. Combined with Vigor/Share Pain i can take a few hits if shit hits the fan. Elan resistance helps too (+4 Fort. save... yes please)

[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 06:07:14 AM by Summerstorm »

Bortasz

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2011, 06:21:33 AM »
Summerstorm wrote about Power you chose.

And thanks for Psicrystal Feats answer. ;)
Radical Taoist
[spoiler]It bears saying: if up against a logic-impervious DM who thinks Core is balanced and Psionics*  isn't, then the most powerful way to disprove that is to play a C.o.D. (Cleric or Druid). Noncore material will not be necessary unless you are going for pure overkill (Draconic Wildshape? Divine Metamagic?). So by all means, if you must win that argument, take you C.o.D. to town. Annihilate the opposition. Make the NPCs and other players scream "Oh no, it's C.o.D.zilla!!!!!" in badly dubbed English. Breathe radioactive fire. Knock down buildings. Then stomp out of the burning Tokyo that is the ruins of the game and swim off into the ocean, seeking a DM with some basic cognitive functions. [/profile]

Summerstorm

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 06:35:58 AM »
Eh, but don't take my word for it. If your gm allows/doesn't know it... maybe you can get your feats for your crystal.

Well i chose these powers so far (But i am still building...)

1:
Crystal Shard (No save and plain good old damage)

Mind Thrust (Save... but D10 untyped damage per PP.. wow)

Mindlink (For Thrallherd... sadly)

Detect Psionics (We are playing with Psi/magic transparency, so i can detect magic with it as well)

Vigor (Yeah... i have no con bonus as an old elan... need the HP from somewhere)

2:
Brain Lock (ONE save and i can take out the meanest MF out there - as long as i myself don't do anything else... Later with Schism... yay)

Ego Whip (If i can just empower, schism dual and overchannel the shit out of this... it is a MASSIVE drain on cha, even if he saves)

Share Pain (Yeah... the good old Vigor/Share pain Psicrystal - thingy)

XXXXX. Still looking

3:
Dispel Psionics (Agin with transperacy i can take down magic too... important)

Time Hop (A bit lackluster against creatures (they can come back any time when they make the Wis-Check - but oh boy the fun)

2x XXX - Still looking around.

4:
Dimension Door (Desperately need some movement power ... really need to get Fly or something)

Shism (Oh the potential - Especially with overchannel and Anarchic Initiate)

As you see i am more of a "Blaster (single Target)" with some controlling aspects. We need that in our campaign at the moment. Maybe i will choose some cone-based attacks, maybe one of the Energy-XXX powers. Or going for something sublter... Suggestion/Read Memory... something like that.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 06:41:23 AM by Summerstorm »

Bortasz

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 08:19:25 AM »
After thinking I take Inertial Armour instate Vigor.
Armour have longer duration and I already have quite lot HP... but my AC is poor.

Still need advice on the Hand mage vs Eternal Dorje question.
Better at will 0 lvl spell or 1 lvl power two times per day? Also if Dorje than what power?


About Power for Summerstorm my Advice

power 2
Read thoughts. Without that you are not a Telepath ;)

3 lvl
Wall of energy Better to have one Big gun in reserve ;)
Touchsight the best anti sneak attack spell ever ;)

Argghhh Please help :(  :banghead

What is better?
Inertial Armour(Power) + Hand of Mage

Vigor (Power) + Hand of Mage

Vigor(power) + Eternal Dorje of Inertial Armour

Inertial Armour(Power) + Eternal Dorje of Vigor

Other Power + Eternal Dorje of Inertial Armour

Other Power + Eternal Dorje of Vigor

U have on 3 lvl 22 HP ass Psion. But only 11 AC
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 08:47:00 AM by Bortasz »
Radical Taoist
[spoiler]It bears saying: if up against a logic-impervious DM who thinks Core is balanced and Psionics*  isn't, then the most powerful way to disprove that is to play a C.o.D. (Cleric or Druid). Noncore material will not be necessary unless you are going for pure overkill (Draconic Wildshape? Divine Metamagic?). So by all means, if you must win that argument, take you C.o.D. to town. Annihilate the opposition. Make the NPCs and other players scream "Oh no, it's C.o.D.zilla!!!!!" in badly dubbed English. Breathe radioactive fire. Knock down buildings. Then stomp out of the burning Tokyo that is the ruins of the game and swim off into the ocean, seeking a DM with some basic cognitive functions. [/profile]

Summerstorm

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2011, 09:45:24 AM »
Well... you can just WEAR an armor. I know the penalties are not very nice and you can't really afford a mithral chainshirt (bestest armor ever *g*), but you know... if you don't make that many skillchecks and attack rolls... who cares.

Well yeah, that's a bad advice in low levels, i guess. But hey: Inertial Armour is totally awesome... but only in higher levels. In low levels a chainshirt will be as good and saves PP's and a power slot.

But in higher levels (when it is awesome) you also will be hit anyway *g*. While Vigor (if not shared etc.) will give you practically a rolled D8-D10 per CASTERLEVEL hitpoints to spare - for one encounter. Costly: yes... but i guess for my character it will be the right choice. Don't know about yours, though.

Well that was informative... hehe, can't help you.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2011, 07:41:54 PM »
Psicrystals gain ACTUAL hit dice. It says so in their entry. They just don't gain hp or skills from their hit dice, since those are specifically overridden.

Seriously, it's in their entry.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Summerstorm

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2011, 05:05:47 AM »
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/psicrystal.htm

And in the description of your own personal Psicrystal it states they gain "Natural Armor, Intelligence Bonus and Special powers" All accounted for in a fixed list. They don't have any advancements capabilities in their statblock either.

Now for the difference see the similar, but not quite, table of the "Animal companion":
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#theDruidsAnimalCompanion
And... the entry "Bonus HD".

So yeah. Just convince me otherwise (I would really like to argue for my Psicrystal to get feats), but as i see it they only have HD in the ENTRY for HD (Which helps with HD-effects and viable target for spells and such... but don't provide anything from the good old level-up. Hell, they don't even provide HP. They got those directly from the master too.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 05:47:58 AM by Summerstorm »

Phoenix00

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2011, 12:12:46 PM »
This is an old debate so why rehash it, go look at the original sources for there is nothing new on the subject.

Feats for Psicrystals debate(from 339)
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19571422/Feats_for_psicrystals.?pg=1

My opinion RAW psicrystals gain feats.  This may not have been intended and if it wasn't intended then via definition it isn't RAI.

nijineko

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2011, 01:32:40 PM »
having reviewed the threads, it is my reasoned conclusion that they do not gain feats by raw. advancement = "-" is pretty clear, just like when la = "-", you can't use that creature as a pc race unless you talk your dm into it.

however, my opinion is that i feel that all sidekick slotted entities (familiars, animal companions, anything else in that position) should advance and get their own abilities. in my own games, i've always treated such entities as secondary characters in their own right. one such side effect of my take on this is that familiars survive the death of masters with all abilities intact and can continue the master's purposes (or their own, in some cases...). makes for a fun plot hook and final villain when the bbeg turns out to actually be the former bbeg's familiar or something. ^^
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Nemo

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2011, 02:43:02 PM »
No Midnight Augumentation love?

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2011, 06:42:04 PM »
having reviewed the threads, it is my reasoned conclusion that they do not gain feats by raw. advancement = "-" is pretty clear, just like when la = "-", you can't use that creature as a pc race unless you talk your dm into it.
1. Unlike familiars, psicrystals receive Hit Dice as their masters, according to their entry (meaning, by default, it gains the same benefits as any other construct except where noted).
2. It has an Intelligence score.
3. All non-mindless creatures gain feats and ability score bonuses as they gain Hit Dice. There are no exceptions to this rule in any of the books, far as I'm aware.

This was all hashed out in all those other threads. I don't care if you say that RAI they don't get it, because all we can go on is RAW, and by RAW they do get feats, whether you like it or not.

Sorry, but it's true.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

nijineko

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2011, 10:15:45 PM »
it seems even raw can be interpreted differently by different people. i respectfully disagree that raw states that. however, we are at an impasse. i've mentioned before why, you disagree. i'll leave it at that in this thread.

i also am of the opinion that they should get said abilities, regardless of the opinions of raw. so, i'm more on your side then against. ^^
arukibito ga michi wo erabu no ka, michi ga arukibito wo erabu no deshou ka?
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2011, 05:05:17 PM »
it seems even raw can be interpreted differently by different people. i respectfully disagree that raw states that. however, we are at an impasse. i've mentioned before why, you disagree. i'll leave it at that in this thread.

i also am of the opinion that they should get said abilities, regardless of the opinions of raw. so, i'm more on your side then against. ^^
Alrighty. But the fact that the psicrystal actually has a feat in its stat block (no superscript B for being a racial bonus feat, and it's not the Alertness in the psicrystal granted abilities because it's explicitly the master and not the psicrystal that gains it) somewhat dents the idea that it does not, in fact, gain HD-related bonus feats.

And now I'm flogging the undead nightmare.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

nijineko

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Re: Help Bulid Telepath or Shaper
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2011, 02:08:08 AM »
oooh! another excellent point. i missed that in my brief review of the psicrystal. thanks. =D
arukibito ga michi wo erabu no ka, michi ga arukibito wo erabu no deshou ka?
Never game alone again!
KadoKado! Game for gifts!
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