Author Topic: Epic Spellcasting  (Read 4292 times)

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Rejakor

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Epic Spellcasting
« on: June 09, 2011, 05:23:48 PM »
I see a lot of people talking about how good epic spellcasting is, but I just personally don't see it.  It's strong, sure, and you can reduce the spellcraft DC to 0 with shenanigans (pocket simulacrums!  Get out everyone, it's buff time!), but how is it better than basic spellcasting?  And without DC reduction to 'very low', the things you can do with it are pretty limited... not to mention that the hard limit on epic spells per day nixes some ideas... the only really broken thing in is the 'create a lower level copy of you and then thought bottle' spell, and that's mostly ad-hoc DCs...

KellKheraptis

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Re: Epic Spellcasting
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2011, 05:51:32 PM »
I see a lot of people talking about how good epic spellcasting is, but I just personally don't see it.  It's strong, sure, and you can reduce the spellcraft DC to 0 with shenanigans (pocket simulacrums!  Get out everyone, it's buff time!), but how is it better than basic spellcasting?  And without DC reduction to 'very low', the things you can do with it are pretty limited... not to mention that the hard limit on epic spells per day nixes some ideas... the only really broken thing in is the 'create a lower level copy of you and then thought bottle' spell, and that's mostly ad-hoc DCs...

Open up Lost Empires of Faerun.  Check out mythals.  Laugh maniacally as you now can integrate every possible obnoxious spell you've ever read AND every epic spell you can think of into ONE FUCKING MAGICAL FORCE FIELD.  Enjoy having deflector shields that can turn away a galaxy of death stars all shooting at you at once :D
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kalaskaagathas

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Re: Epic Spellcasting
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2011, 07:11:33 PM »
I see a lot of people talking about how good epic spellcasting is, but I just personally don't see it.  It's strong, sure, and you can reduce the spellcraft DC to 0 with shenanigans (pocket simulacrums!  Get out everyone, it's buff time!), but how is it better than basic spellcasting?  And without DC reduction to 'very low', the things you can do with it are pretty limited... not to mention that the hard limit on epic spells per day nixes some ideas... the only really broken thing in is the 'create a lower level copy of you and then thought bottle' spell, and that's mostly ad-hoc DCs...

Open up Lost Empires of Faerun.  Check out mythals.  Laugh maniacally as you now can integrate every possible obnoxious spell you've ever read AND every epic spell you can think of into ONE FUCKING MAGICAL FORCE FIELD.  Enjoy having deflector shields that can turn away a galaxy of death stars all shooting at you at once :D

Don't forget to carry it all with you via Acorn of Far Travel.

Tshern

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Re: Epic Spellcasting
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2011, 08:01:43 PM »
Could you not just center it on yourself with Permanent emanation?

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KellKheraptis

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Re: Epic Spellcasting
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2011, 09:52:47 PM »
Could you not just center it on yourself with Permanent emanation?

Who needs either of those when you have the option of making yourself the target of the mythal?  Make it a skin tight force field :D
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Rejakor

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Re: Epic Spellcasting
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2011, 04:25:19 AM »
Fucking faerun.  Ruining it for everyone, all the time.

Daniel678

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Re: Epic Spellcasting
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2011, 04:46:20 AM »

Tshern

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Re: Epic Spellcasting
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2011, 08:08:48 AM »
Could you not just center it on yourself with Permanent emanation?

Who needs either of those when you have the option of making yourself the target of the mythal?  Make it a skin tight force field :D
For the hilarity of making it pretty much immune to all kinds of dispelling. That can be done with epic magic, but this way you have less to worry about when you start tossing those Spellcraft checks. Not to mention you can promise to pay tremendous amounts of experience and take huge diceloads of backlash damage without ever paying them, because you never actually cast the spell.

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KellKheraptis

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Re: Epic Spellcasting
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2011, 09:29:22 AM »
Could you not just center it on yourself with Permanent emanation?

Who needs either of those when you have the option of making yourself the target of the mythal?  Make it a skin tight force field :D
For the hilarity of making it pretty much immune to all kinds of dispelling. That can be done with epic magic, but this way you have less to worry about when you start tossing those Spellcraft checks. Not to mention you can promise to pay tremendous amounts of experience and take huge diceloads of backlash damage without ever paying them, because you never actually cast the spell.

If you were a good boy and picked it up psionically, it's been a Supernatural Transformation since level 1 :P  Mitigate it with all the backlash and XP you want, and it still won't cost a damn thing.  Or if you're not a psionic character, just use a Supernatural Spell use from Dweomerkeeper.
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Tshern

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Re: Epic Spellcasting
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2011, 09:33:07 AM »
Could you not just center it on yourself with Permanent emanation?

Who needs either of those when you have the option of making yourself the target of the mythal?  Make it a skin tight force field :D
For the hilarity of making it pretty much immune to all kinds of dispelling. That can be done with epic magic, but this way you have less to worry about when you start tossing those Spellcraft checks. Not to mention you can promise to pay tremendous amounts of experience and take huge diceloads of backlash damage without ever paying them, because you never actually cast the spell.

If you were a good boy and picked it up psionically, it's been a Supernatural Transformation since level 1 :P  Mitigate it with all the backlash and XP you want, and it still won't cost a damn thing.  Or if you're not a psionic character, just use a Supernatural Spell use from Dweomerkeeper.
Agreed, agreed. I was about to say my way would be less likely to result in the player's death by the DM, but then I realised there is no chance of survival anyway...

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Echoes

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Re: Epic Spellcasting
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2011, 06:21:18 PM »

This + the ward seed = immunity to every harmful spell ever, including epic spells. Get the DC to 0 via ritual casting and make them permanent in duration. Commence maniacal laughter.

Note: never ever use Epic Spells for killing people. That is an utter waste and people who do that are failures. Epic Spellcasting is all about super-buffs and world-changing effects (like creating entire races of naturally-magical hyper-intelligent loyal servant species to populate your genesis demiplane).
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Re: Epic Spellcasting
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2011, 06:28:36 PM »
... one way to think about the small Reducers section
is getting 2 off the DC, is approximately the equivalent of ~1 spell level.
This isn't a straight and easy comparison, though.

And you can get those cost reductions to ridiculous levels.
DC 0 is borkt.
DC (-1) or more, is more borkt.
DCs cut by the SR trick in the Fortify seed.
I mean the specialist-like mini reducers are almost trivial.

Heal seed is where they dumped 3.0 Heal spell,
because it was broken of broken of broken, to the very early 3.0 CO board (HA).