Author Topic: Ghost FoP cohort  (Read 2118 times)

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  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
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Ghost FoP cohort
« on: May 31, 2011, 12:30:53 AM »
This is going to be the cohort for a slightly modified multithreat build of DavidWL's
Chameleon multi-threat
It should hit the points that build's cohort needed (namely the Marshal aura and focus on Charisma skills) while being able to contribute in combat as well.

Cheese: Ghostwalk variants: No Calling and Flexible Advancement, character can borrow money for Savage Species ritual to obtain evil subtype, takes 2 Flaws at 2nd level (because dying is traumatic, otherwise takes flaws at 1st and retrains/DCFS/Psy Ref as needed), LA buyoff.

Brief Feat Descriptions: Ghost Hand and Poltergeist Hand are crappy prereqs for Poltergeist Rage, which allows one to use the Violent Thrust form of Telekinesis for 2 Charisma damage, which is eliminated through 1 point of incarnum invested in the unbound Strongheart Vest. Improved Ghost Hand is sustained force Telekinesis.

Abilities (32 point buy)[spoiler]Str 5(-) (8-3 Age)
Dex 5 (8-3 Age)
Con 12 (14-3 Age +1 Bloodline)
Int 16 (14+2 Age) (note Int 14 is the minimum to allow FoP entry@3rd level)
Wis 12 (12+2 Age-2 Magic Blooded)
Cha 38 (18 base +4 level +6 Cloak +5 Wishes +2 Age +2 Magic-Blooded +1 Bloodline)[/spoiler]

Build Stub[spoiler]Old Magic-Blooded Dvati Cloistered Cleric 1/Eidolon 2/Fiend of Possession 6/Marshal 1/Master of the Unseen Hand 4/Bloodline 3 (Applied to FoP and Improved Caster Level from MotUH)
Cleric Domains: Incarnum, Open
Bloodline: Celestial/Devil/Demon all work (needs +1 Con and +1 Cha)

1 Incarnum Spellshaping (Domain bonus), Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest)(Level), Knowledge Devotion (traded from Domain)
2 Ghost Hand (Flaw), Poltergeist Hand (Flaw) Poltergeist Rage (Eidolon bonus)
3 Item Familiar, Improved Poltergeist Hand(Eidolon bonus)
6 Open
9 Mindsight*
10 Skill Focus (Diplomacy)(Marshal Bonus)
12 Open
*using the FoP's telepathy with a host

[spoiler]Attack: 15@+45 (17 from level, 7 from Improved Caster Level, 1 from Masterwork, 1 from usual Knowledge Devotion result, 19 from Charisma)
Damage Output: 4d6/level, maxing at 60d6+90(15 Colossal Siangham w/ chained greater magic weapon and usual Knowledge Devotion result) average 300/round
HP 1/2(6+3d8+6d6+4d4) +14 = 39.25 each
Saves: F:11 R:3 W:17
AC: 26 (10+19 Deflection-3 Dex)

Needless to say, they're never going to be outside of an item.[/spoiler]

Marshal Aura: Demand Fortitude
Equipment: Savage Species ritual, Cloak of Charisma +6, 15 Masterwork Colossal Sianghams, 980 gold free
Item Familiar: Quiver of Ehlonna Int 16, Cha/Wis 12
    Special Abilities: Increased Sapience, Spell Use
Skills: 103 skill points@ Int 16
     Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate 20
     Knowledge: Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Psionics, Religion, The planes: 1
     Knowledge: Arcana 6 (2 CC)
     Hide 19 (2 CC)
     Concentration 8[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 10:23:56 PM by Nebuchadnezzar »


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Re: Ghostwalk telekinetic Fiend of Possession/Legacy Champion
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 12:39:55 AM »
Well, Ancestral relic can be useful, but it requires you to be good. On the other hand, FoP wants you to have the [Evil] subtype. Quite contradictory.

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  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
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Re: Ghostwalk telekinetic Fiend of Possession/Legacy Champion
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2011, 12:47:17 AM »
I took it out of the build stub, but insofar as one could be good aligned with an Evil subtype it's not a major concern. It's a superfluous feat, anyway.


  • Bi-Curious George
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Re: Ghostwalk telekinetic Fiend of Possession/Legacy Champion
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2011, 02:21:43 AM »
Ancestral Relic could work, but check with the DM.  The Evil-subtype makes you count as if you are evil for alignment based effects, but you still count as you actual alignment as well.  Since ancestral relic is not exalted, you should be okay. 

I am assuming you are over leveling with the Legacy Champion.

A few classes that might be useful:

Eidoloncer 1 will grant you another ghost feat if you need Improved Poltergeist Hand for free to open up a feat slot.

Fiend of Corruption 1 gets the ability to grant a +3 unlisted ability bonus on a target once a day.  Good for your cohort.  Also level one grants alternative form which lets you turn into a small to large humanoid.  Not bad for a walking around form if needed (Although you never really want to walk about).

Marshal 1 is always good if you are going with charisma.  Charisma adding into charisma skills a second time is useful, or spell penetration again for your cohorts.

Bloodlines is another option from unearthed arcania.  It will advance Fiend of Possession abilities and grant you bonus feats and ability score bonuses.  It is best if taken for 3 levels, but even 1 could be useful.  Bloodlines 3 + Uncanny trickster 3 are an alternative to Legacy Champion if you dont want to mess around with legacy weapons and you have other classes that can benefits from the bloodlines boost.

My limited experience with Legacy Weapons also leads me to believe they are not so good.  Go for a custom item if possible unless you see one that really strikes you.

Improved  Cohort from dragon Heroes of Battle lets your cohort be within 1 level of you instead of the normal 2.

There is a funny line of thought that Dvati can qualify for the Mindsight feat (Lords of Madness) with their unique telepathy therefor sensing every creature across the planes, their type, and Int score.

Here is my FoP handbook:


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Re: Ghost FoP cohort
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2011, 05:22:00 PM »
I've modified the build upon realizing that it needed Master of the Unseen Hand's 4th level in order to use HD instead of BAB for Violent Thrust, as well as not wanting to mess with Weapons of Legacy.

Roleplaying wise I'm imagining a pair of twins that hid their entire life due to being fragile as all heck. Upon seeing their mortality approaching they found religion with some spooky ghost/soul god that allowed them to become Ghostwalk ghosts. They normally inhabit a buckler and staff, but choose to sleep inside their 'dog', the quiver that ends up helping with aid another actions and holding up to 6th level spells for its masters' master.

I still have a couple of questions that I hope I can get a little help with.

Open Feat/Domain Slots: 3 Feats and 1 Domain remain unfilled.  Do you think it needs Precise Shot to avoid hitting allies in melee? If no other domains are more helpful than, say, luck then I'll just take the Ghost domain for flavor.

How long is a colossal Siangham? Is modifying a Quiver of Ehlonna to solely hold them (and their shrunken corpses) problematic?

Should the Dvati normally possess a buckler and staff? What enchantments should they provide? There is +9 available to each, and assume they already have a +1 from elsewhere.

How else can I max Charisma? I have 2 LA to play with.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 09:25:49 PM by Nebuchadnezzar »


  • Bi-Curious George
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Re: Ghost FoP cohort
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2011, 09:39:30 PM »
I couple of things, but first a question, What level are you starting at?

Your Con score is a 12 which is not high enough for the shape soulmeld feat (13 required).

You dropped the Otherworldy feat from your build so you don't have the outsider type.

Bloodlines have certain levels at which you must take them at without getting xp penalties.  These are at level 3, 6, and 12 for a major bloodline.

That being said, below is the fastest FoP entry.

Cloistered Cleric 1/Eidolon 1/ Bloodline 1/ Eidolon 1/ FoP 1/ Bloodline 1/ FoP 5/ Bloodline 1/Marshal 1/Master of the Unseen Hand 4

This is assuming the Otherwordly feat is put back in.  Another option would be to use the Half-fiendish Variety rules and and the Half-fiend level progression rules below.  The half-succubus template ends up with +2 Dex, +2 Con, +4 Int, +8 Cha.  If you use the level break down and take 2 out of 4 Half-fiend levels (which are LA that you buy off), you could very easily end up with +2 Con, +2 Int, +4 Cha.  This will grant you the outsider type, the Con needed for your soulshaping feat, and more Cha as requested.  You might even be able to pump in all 4 levels of half-fiend if you go completly crazy.  Pay off your 1 LA from your race before taking a level of this class.  Then pay off that LA before you take the next level of the Fiend class.  This way you can buy off 1 LA every 3 levels, or 5 LA over 15 levels since you never have more than 1 LA at a time.  This is cheese and needs to get by the DM, but you are already using a heavy cheese build (you are on your own for siangham tricks).

Another option is to drop one level of Eidolon and not try to stuff all the feats in up front.  You wont be able to get everything in up front anyway and you have a number of unused open feats.  Then you can move up marshal which will cover the Will bonus.  This opens up a level for Fiend of Corruption if you want the stat bonus to your main guy or the 5th level of Master of the Unseen Hand.

I am less excited about armor than weapons with the Fiend of Possession.  First of all you can get armor enchantments on bracers of armor, shields, and regular armor.  They dont all stack for AC, but they do give you three locations you can already put armor properties on which do work together.  Also I dont see anything that says you cannot stuff more than one Fiend into an item  ;)

For Weapons:
+8 Ever Dancing (Epic Book): Like Dancing, but it never stops
+2 Skillful (Complete Mage): Weapon Prof and 3/4 BAB for user
+3 Wrathful Healing (Sidebar in Enemies and allies or one of those really old paperbacks): Heal half of what you do
+1 Vicous (DMG I think): +2d6 to enemy, +1d6 damage to you.  Use with Wraithful healing gain 1.5d6 and take 1d6
+1 Bane (DMG): You have knowledge devotion, identify creature type and add bane.
+2 Transmuting (Magic Item Compendium): Bypass DR
Straight +9 enhancement bonus is good too.


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Re: Ghost FoP cohort
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2011, 10:22:51 PM »
The build is really just a hypothetical, so let's say it starts at 17.

The Ghostwalk Ghost template provides the Outsider type.

I'll adjust the build to get Con 13.

I was assuming bloodline levels were taken at the normal points. Something I find unclear is whether one gets feat slots when going up in bloodline level, so I operated as if it didn't.

The list of weapon enchantments is helpful. Thanks.


  • Bi-Curious George
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Re: Ghost FoP cohort
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2011, 05:19:59 AM »
Thanks - I'm flattered!

A few thoughts: Master of the Unseen Hand is great for "practical" in-combat utility.  As a pure cohort, some of the other suggestions are outstanding
* Crusader 2 (for White Raven Tactics),
* Marshall 3 (so that we can have 2 different auras at the same time) ... although 2 levels for an extra aura is sort of expensive and very possibly not worth it.
* Fiend of Corruption 1 (which, among other thing, would probably allow for an extra 8th and 9th level slot, both for arcane and divine, in addition to the +2 to everything).  
* Heartfire fanner can do awesome bardic buffs, including granting bonus fighter feats!  (Unforetunately, this is Dragon Mag.)

Choosing to go Dvati instead is great!

The feat loyalty's reward from Kingdom of Kalamar would allow the fiend to grant the equivalent of a custom (dm negotiated) feat to "followers".

Finally, it's a tough decision between buffing fortitude (the weak save of the build) and the Dex pick (because it increases initiative!)


P.S.  I'm pretty sure you do get the feat slot at the normal levels, despite the bloodlines ... I believe bloodlines cost exp, but nothing more (although this is debatable).
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 05:38:41 AM by DavidWL »
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Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

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