Author Topic: Psionics v. Undead  (Read 4697 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tweedledope

  • Monkey bussiness
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • Email
Psionics v. Undead
« on: May 30, 2011, 06:58:06 PM »
Been a longtime lurker on the BG boards here after the downfall of the WotC CO forums...

As such, I've started playing the game again.  In fact, we've progressed quite lengthily into a campaign and I've quickly found that my Warforged Druid is no match for the rest of the party...Shade Rogue, Steel Dragon Cleric and two Minotaur Fighter/Barbarians...obviously, I feel a little underpowered.  This is especially true now that we've begun to face our newest foe...The Undead.  So, while I feel that my untimely demise is up and that I won't survive any more negative levels (I got pummeled from level 8 down to 2 in the last combat session), I'm looking for a potential new character.

I've always loved psionics and, apparently, the DM does as well. However, I'd be amiss if I didn't say that I prefer telepaths to kineticists and that poses a huge problem in this campaign.  Undead don't respond well to telepathic assaults.  So, this is where I come to you all...how can I effectively play a psion (or, likely an Erudite) and still be effective against the Undead in this campaign?

Cheers
The Stormwind Fallacy
Read it. Think about it. Sig it.

Solo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
  • Solo the Sorcelator, at your service
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2011, 07:03:10 PM »
1. Psionic Grease
2. Astral Construct
2. Blasting powers

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2011, 07:08:55 PM »
Go for something other than telepath. Shapers are insanely good no matter what you're up against, and any telepath with Expanded Knowledge (Astral Construct) can hold its own (not to mention you can simply hunt down a critter to use as a meat shield and Dominate it for your own purposes; if it dies, Dominate another one).

Also, you could go thrallherd as your PrC, and send your minions after the undead while you hang back.

If you could avoid those negative levels, a druid should be able to blow anyone but other T1 classes away. They're the most well-rounded and powerful class in core so long as you're not especially optimizing well, though that does depend on how you play. Do you have Natural Spell? If so, that's all the optimizing you need. Just stay in a wild shaped form that can avoid getting hit (such as a bird), and cast battlefield control spells before sending in your animal companion to kill everything in sight. If your buddy gets level drained, either release it from your service while it recuperates or use your ability to cast to remove the negative levels.

Seriously, druids are insanely powerful if you play to their strengths.

But if you REALLY want to change your character, try playing a warforged shaper. They're immune to a lot of undead abilities and can destroy undead with impunity using astral constructs and other metacreativity powers.

Also, see what Solo said.

[edit] Either way, make sure you have some way of affecting incorporeal undead. There are magic items that do this, and any [force] effect or abjuration effect does too.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 07:13:22 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Twylyghte

  • Monkey bussiness
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2011, 07:13:16 PM »
CPsi has some undead affecting powers, celestial conduit is pretty useful for blasting undead.  A shaper or constructor would do really well, too.

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2011, 07:23:52 PM »
CPsi has some undead affecting powers, celestial conduit is pretty useful for blasting undead.  A shaper or constructor would do really well, too.
Constructor is a definite, although I'd rather use more multipurpose powers than the undead-specific ones in CPsi, unless you know for absolute sure that you'll be going up against them most of the time.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Twylyghte

  • Monkey bussiness
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2011, 07:32:18 PM »
True, let the cleric deal with the undead spells...

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2011, 07:34:44 PM »
True, let the cleric deal with the undead spells...
There are some cheap items in MIC (I forget what they are, though) that allow spells you cast to affect incorporeals with no miss chance. See if your DM will let you use them for your powers. If not, find a way to grab the Magic mantle (such as by being a mantled erudite). Then you can use that with your powers all you like.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Scerpico

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2011, 07:50:49 PM »
Hyperconcious has the pretty sweet Ghostbreaker PRC, its a full BAB full manifesting class that focuses on anti undead abilities such as granting turning (at 5th you turn as a cleric of your manifester level+2) extra damage to powers VS undead and the ability to ignore the first negative level you take a round.
For 5 levels I can't think of a better solution to your problem.

If you go for psionics that is, for some reason I thought you were already a psion rather than a druid...
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 08:07:07 PM by Scerpico »

Tweedledope

  • Monkey bussiness
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • Email
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2011, 07:52:34 PM »
Yeah...I really went with thematics for my druid instead of power.  Stupid mistake on my behalf.  I prestiged from Druid into Landforged Walker from Secrets of Xen'drik.  That, of course, lost me a caster level AND stopped my wildshape progression.  O, how the gods of CO hath smote me hence.

That being said, I was still behind the curve in the party regardless.  I forgot the mention that the other party members above had the same amount of class levels as I did.  So, while I was a Warforged Druid 8, they were Minotaur Fighter 8, etc...a 30+ strength trumps + keen minotaur greathammer trumps my wildshape at that level any day.

The reason I thought about going into Telepath is that it's really what I like to do.  The "mastermind" controller type.  In fact, my Druid has a Staff of Charming (and some cross-classs UMD ranks) and I turned the tide of battle in our last "epic" fight when I used Charm Monster on the BBEG.  It was pretty epic to see him dismiss all of his summoned creatures and level the fight back to our group.  Big props from the party and the DM for that.  

I hadn't thought of the Thrallheard, in fact, I usually just look right past it...perhaps I'll go that route and mix in some of that Expanded Knowledge (Astral Construct) just for more fun...great ideas all around!
The Stormwind Fallacy
Read it. Think about it. Sig it.

BrainCandy

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 79
    • Email
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2011, 08:00:23 PM »
I would love to see this druid build that you feel is underpowered. TBH I say stick it out with the druid, figure out what the problem is and then rape face.

Midnight_v

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2660
  • Dulce et decorum est pro alea mori.
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2011, 08:02:13 PM »
Quote
Druid is no match for the rest of the party
???
I never thought I'd hear anyone say that who wasn't in a party of druid/druid/cleric...
I don't mean to disuade you from changing classes at all, but I gotta ask have you considered a retraining session?
I mean it's much easier to whip your druid into shape, than to create a whole new pc.

However, I do understand if the events have disuaded you from continuing on...
\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"

Tshern

  • Clown Prince of Crime
  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5726
  • Aistii valoa auttavasti
    • Email
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2011, 08:04:03 PM »
Why exactly is the rest of the party allowed to have higher ECLs than you?

Handy Links

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2011, 08:19:04 PM »
Wait, you were a druid warforged and you got negative levels?

Warforged are immune to energy drain.

[edit] Did your DM Rule Zero warforged into having a huge LA or something?
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Midnight_v

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2660
  • Dulce et decorum est pro alea mori.
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2011, 08:23:13 PM »
As my partners above me have clearly stated. . .
It seems somethings not right with this narrative.
I mean again we'd love to help you but I"m dying to know what happened
exactly there...
\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2011, 08:28:40 PM »
I *would* suggest necropolitan here, but if you've got a turn-happy turn-monkey in your party, perhaps this isn't such a good idea.

However, look in Hyperconscious for the Psianimate Dead power, and fight fire undead with fire undead.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Midnight_v

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2660
  • Dulce et decorum est pro alea mori.
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2011, 08:41:15 PM »
I *would* suggest necropolitan here, but if you've got a turn-happy turn-monkey in your party, perhaps this isn't such a good idea.

However, look in Hyperconscious for the Psianimate Dead power, and fight fire undead with fire undead.
Wow... warforged are immune to energy drain... but some people don't recognize that its relation to level drain.
Greenbound summoning, is what I keep thinking of from all of this.
And I'm rusty is there not a wild shape that gives you the plant subtype?
Still, I doubt he wants to become a necromancer even a psionic one.
\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2011, 08:48:18 PM »
I *would* suggest necropolitan here, but if you've got a turn-happy turn-monkey in your party, perhaps this isn't such a good idea.

However, look in Hyperconscious for the Psianimate Dead power, and fight fire undead with fire undead.
Wow... warforged are immune to energy drain... but some people don't recognize that its relation to level drain.
Greenbound summoning, is what I keep thinking of from all of this.
And I'm rusty is there not a wild shape that gives you the plant subtype?
Still, I doubt he wants to become a necromancer even a psionic one.

It seems as though the only way to get negative levels outside of energy drain is by holding items that give you temporary negative levels, or through spells. If you were negative'd by vampires or something, that's level drain, which the OP would have been immune to.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Midnight_v

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2660
  • Dulce et decorum est pro alea mori.
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2011, 08:50:14 PM »
NO! No. I know that bro. . . I'm saying I've encountered people who we're being dicks about it
and being WRONG about it as well making out to be 2 different things.
So yeah...
\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2011, 08:51:40 PM »
NO! No.
What is that for?

Also, note the [Thrallherd] ability isn't mind-affecting, so you can pull in constructs and undead just fine.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 08:54:26 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Ras F

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
Re: Psionics v. Undead
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2011, 10:36:26 PM »
NO! No.
What is that for?

Also, note the [Thrallherd] ability isn't mind-affecting, so you can pull in constructs and undead just fine.

He's saying you're preaching to the choir. Emphatically!
Life gives you lemons? Then you better fucking learn Citromancy.