Author Topic: Help with Charger  (Read 2672 times)

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dsmfive

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Help with Charger
« on: July 22, 2008, 04:42:28 PM »
Hello all.

I would like some feedback on this build.  Going for a Glass Cannon build around the idea of charging to deal lots of damage.  The group has lots of buffer types and needs the muscle and frontliner for them to support.  The game is starting at level 4 and likely going to continue into the high teens or even all the way to 20th.

Books: Core + UA + PHB2 + All Complete Series + ECS

Race: Half-orc
32 point build (with racial mods): Str 20, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 6

Lion Totem Barb 1 / Ftr 6 / EWM 1 / Ftr +2 / Half-orc Paragon 3 / Orc Paragon 3 / Ftr +4

Feats
1: Power Attack
F1: Dodge
3: EWP Bastard Sword
F2: WF Bastard Sword
F4: Improved Sunder
6: Leap Attack
F6: Combat Brute
9: Improved Bull Rush
F8: Shock Trooper
12: Mobility
15: Elusive Target
18: ??
F10: ??
F12: ??

Basically, I went with the Paragon classes for the Str boost to make the most of the EWM Uncanny Blow.  The levels of fighter are for the feats to get the most of the Shock Trooper-Combat Brute-Elusive Target combo.  I was aiming for lots of Power Attacking Charging damage.

Could you all give me some suggestions about the feats/classes, the order they are taken, what to do with the last 3 feats (or levels since I don't really need the fighter levels)? 

Thanks for your help

Ubernoob

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Re: Help with Charger
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2008, 04:58:50 PM »
If you are going charging there is no reason not to use frenzied berserker for the improved power attack.  Not in the mood to check my books right now, but a basic build usually went like this:
Barbarian 2 (Lion CC, Wolf UA, Whirling Frenzy UA)/ Fighter 2/ Cloistered Cleric 1/ Ordained Champion 1/ Frenzied Berserker 10/ X 2

Notable feats:
Leap Attack (CA)
Shock Trooper (CW)
Knock-Down

Domains:
Take war, knowledge, and something with a cool first level spell at the first cleric level.  Trade in knowledge and that something extra's special abilities for two fighter feats.  With the bonus domain from ordained champion get pride.

Don't take the first level of frenzied berserker until your will save is +19.
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Tshern

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Re: Help with Charger
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2008, 05:05:00 PM »
Grabbing Iron will from Otyugh hole might be worthwhile...

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RobbyPants

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Re: Help with Charger
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2008, 05:26:42 PM »
As ubernoob said, use the Whirling Frenzy variant from UA.  It works great with pounce, even at first level.

Also, with a Str that high (from race, items, rage, and frenzy), getting more Str damage out of your weapon can be great.  If you pick up Exotic Weapon Proficiency with either the bastard sword, war axe, or maul and Weapon Focus, you can qualify for Exotic Weapon Master.  Take just a single level of that PrC for the Uncanny Blow ability.  This lets you use a one-handed exotic weapon in two hands for Double your Str mod to damage instead of the usual x1.5.
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Ubernoob

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Re: Help with Charger
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2008, 05:29:17 PM »
As ubernoob said, use the Whirling Frenzy variant from UA.  It works great with pounce, even at first level.

Also, with a Str that high (from race, items, rage, and frenzy), getting more Str damage out of your weapon can be great.  If you pick up Exotic Weapon Proficiency with either the bastard sword, war axe, or maul and Weapon Focus, you can qualify for Exotic Weapon Master.  Take just a single level of that PrC for the Uncanny Blow ability.  This lets you use a one-handed exotic weapon in two hands for Double your Str mod to damage instead of the usual x1.5.
One handed martial weapons don't have reach.  Not using reach on a charger is insanely stupid.
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RobbyPants

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Re: Help with Charger
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2008, 05:39:48 PM »
One handed martial weapons don't have reach.  Not using reach on a charger is insanely stupid.
Yeah, and you'd have to work at it to get a good one-handed reach exotic weapon.

About the only one I can think of off-hand is the kusuri-gama, and that's a light weapon, so you couldn't Power Attack with it.  If you tried to trick it by uising a large one (to make it a one-handed weapon), you'd lose the reach, oddly enough.

Oh well.  I suppose the reach will probably be more useful than an extra +0.5 Str mod to damage.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Tshern

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Re: Help with Charger
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2008, 05:50:51 PM »
Spinning sword from Secrets of Sarlona is a one-handed reach weapon.

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Ubernoob

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Re: Help with Charger
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2008, 05:59:18 PM »
Spinning sword from Secrets of Sarlona is a one-handed reach weapon.
Is it worth the cost over just using a martial reach weapon though?
We can probably get free weapon focus in the martial weapon.  The spinning sword requires EWP, weapon focus, and a level to get the .5 str.  Since FB is already hugely feat intensive, I'd just pass.
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Tshern

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Re: Help with Charger
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2008, 06:11:48 PM »
Oh, same here. I simply answered to RobbyPants' message.

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iconoplast

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Re: Help with Charger
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2008, 05:40:31 AM »
I've got a sort of build put together (relying on Iron Heart Surge to end Frenzies - YMMV.), but I'm not really proud of it, it feels kind of kludgey.

Here are the bits I'm trying to accomplish:
1) Optimize Power Attack (Leap Attack, Favored Power Attack if I could fit it in)
2) Optimize Damage (Battle Jump doubles damage when you drop down 10', combine with Up The Walls)
3) Wild Shape into a War Troll ASAP
4) Dungeon Crashing + Knock Back Feat.

The problem is that by cramming it all into one build, I don't get Knockback until level 12, at which point the Dungeoncrashing isn't nearly as cool as it was early on.

Build Stub: Fighter 2(Dungeoncrash)/Barb (Pounce, Whirling Rage) 1/Warblade 1/Ranger 1/Psychic Warrior 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Ordained Champion 1/Abolisher 1/Master of Many Forms 2/Nature's Warrior 1/Frenzied Berserker 8

Feats: Battle Jump, Endurance, Alertness, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Cleave, 2 feats set on fire for FB (rage something 1 and rage something 2), Up The Walls, Knockback (Only works while wild shaped), Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, Weapon Focus.

Feats gained from:Fighter 1, Psychic Warrior 1, Human, 2 Domain Trade-Ins via Ordained Champion, 7 from levels = 12.

I just can't get the build to fit together so as to seem playable from the beginning.  Which it really ought to be since a Whirling Frenzied Dungeoncrashing Barbarian seems like a whole lot of fun.



Ubernoob

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Re: Help with Charger
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2008, 03:51:19 PM »
Forget the wildshape.  Just use polymorph.  Get leadership if your party is stingy.
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