Author Topic: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)  (Read 6859 times)

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Summerstorm

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Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« on: May 18, 2011, 05:22:06 PM »
I am just fiddling around with some ideas and after failing to find some good complimentaries for a Warlock, i got to think:

Wizard (Focussed Specialist Evoker) 1
Warlock 3
Eldritch Theurge 4 (Dual classing Warlock and one arcane class)

Feats:
1: Precocious Apprentice to access 2nd Level spell on first level.
3: Practised Spellcaster (boosts CL by up to 4, for missing out one class)
6: X

Invoker Level: 7, 4D6 Eldritch Blast, Wizard level 5, Access to 3rd level spells, CL: 8.

Of course i am aware that Evoker is pretty much the worst wizard... but for this character i want to have the world BURN. Maximize damage, just floating around with the "Fell Flight" all day and rain DOOM upon my enemies. (Thinking about having necromancy allowed... still unsure about prohibited schools.

Attributes Rolled: 7, 11, 12, 13, 13, 18

HOUSERULES!!: Access to Players Guide to Faerun and Core. AND two books of my choosing for class/race/feat specific stuff. So no cherry picking, sadly.

Now... i need some advice:
Maybe i should consider an warmage? Allows for synergy armor with warlock, lowers dependancy on two casting attributes and variable spells. But giving away ALL the possibilities of at least a few school spells? Or should i maybe choose sorcerer? Both of those classes of course lower my access to spell levels though.

Also: race. I was thinking about Tiefling (-2 Cha... ugh... but allows me going wizard with +2 Int and has some nice other stuff, +2 dex is neato too for rays and such) I have enough XP at start to buy off one LA.

So overall what would you build to have a flexible yet insanely POWERFUL damage dealer with high peak damage, but who doesn't have to rest all the time, or can just show up to one/two encounters, maybe one who can take a punch as well, lightly armored, flying... warlock seems good for that. Also has a cool style about it.

Plans overall: Maybe starting the "Fey Heritage" line of feats or concentrating on Metamagics/Sudden Metamagics. Ending the Eldritch Theurge class, maybe going Incanatatatatatrix or Hellfire Warlock, but that would be a third book... only available ingame if my gm lets me find a mentor. But splitting up the progression... completing arcane would be cleverer, i guess.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 12:59:07 AM by Summerstorm »

altpersona

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2011, 06:54:23 PM »
isnt there a 'practiced invoker' feat, if not try to argue for it.
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ninjarabbit

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2011, 07:11:55 PM »
Truthfully you could get the same effect by being a straight wizard and taking the firey burst reserve feat or another reserve feat.

Summerstorm

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2011, 08:03:50 PM »
Hm... the effect of shooting someone in the face with negative energy... which THEN explodes into a fireball? Nah, the reserve feats are good and all... but it is either use it or cast, while "Eldritch Theurge" allows me to combine warlock blasts with spells early on for pretty much no charge. (And later on loading Invokations into spells a few time a day)

I was really thinking of taking some of the versatility and overall "world-changing" power of the wizard, or similar class, and switch it over to just soulburning destructive power. Trying to get the "NEEDED" versatility and utility spells from feats and 24/7 invocations.

WarlockLord

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2011, 03:14:46 AM »
I think wizard/incantatrix would do everything you're looking for.  Persist spells as needed for flight/invisibility and so on, then stack metamagic feats on your favorite blasting spell and kill dudes.  Take PHBII & Complete Arcane as your other two books, then stack nuking metamagic feats on an orb until you can one-shot anything. 

veekie

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2011, 03:21:03 AM »
Note that warlock doesn't exactly need charisma, if he sticks to no save stuff.
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Summerstorm

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2011, 03:00:32 AM »
Ok, i have thought about everything a bit. Not really satified so far. (I forgot i needed to have at least 5 classlevels for entry into "Eldritch Theurge") Also i now invested nearly all into intelligence, Need to look into DC boosts for the blasts. So far i have none with saves, but i plan on using the fire or other least and higher invocations (The least ones are a bit underwhelming for this level i start at (8))

This is what i have so far: -Still juggling around Feats and skills, Spells and Invocations. Any suggestions/remarks/useful tips?
[spoiler]

Level 3 Warlock, 2 Wizard, 3 Eldritch Theurge, Tiefling Bought Off LA at Lvl 3 for 3000 XP
Books: Complete Arcane, Complete Mage
Attributes:
   Norm   Lvl   Race   Sum   Mod
Str:   7         7   -2
Dex:   12      +2   14   +2
Con:   13   +1      14   +2
Int:   18      +2   20   +5
Wis:   11         11   +0
Cha:   13   +1   -2   12   +1

Race Tiefling (Native Outsider):
+ 2 Dex, + 2 Int, - 2 Cha
+ Infernal, + Darkvision
+ 5 Cold, + 5 Electricity, + 5 Fire
+ Darkness 1/Day
+ 2 Bluff,  + 2 Hide

Wizard 2:
Focused Specialist (Evoker):
-1 Spellslot
+3 Spellslots Evocations
+2 Spellcraft Checks on Evocations
Energy Affinity (Fire) +1 CL with fire spells. No Familar.
+ Scribe Scroll
Forbidden Schools: Illusion, Enchantment, Transmutation
+ 1 BaB, +0 Fort, +0 Ref, +3 Will, 2D4 HP

Warlock 3:
Detect Magic (at will)
Damage Reduction 1/Cold Iron
Eldritch Blast (2D6)
(3 Least Invokations)
+ 2 BaB, +1 Fort, +1 Ref, +3 Will, 3D6 HP

Eldritch Theurge 3:
+ 3 Spellprogression: Wizard. (5)
+ 3 Invokingprogression: Warlock (6)
+ 1 Fiendish Resilience (Fast Healing 1 for 20 rounds)
+ 1 DR/Cold Iron, stacks.
+ Spellblast (Area Attack Spells carried by Eldritch Blast, Full round cast)
+ 2 BaB, +1 Ref, + 1 Fort, +3 Will, 3D4 HP

Feats:
1: Precocious Apprentice (One Spellslot + Spell Lvl 2)
3: Practised Caster (Offsets up to 4 CL for one Class, Warlock->Wizard)
6: Retributive Spell (+1 Metamagic, Reflexive Spell)

Attributes:
4: Con
8: Cha

Skills Wiz(28) + War(21) + ET(21) :
                    Wiz   War   ET   Race   Syn   Att   Sum
Bluff                              +2      +1   3
Concentration         5   3                 +2   10
Craft            
Decipher Script                             +5   5      
Disguise                                +1   2
Hide                           +2      +2   4
Intimidate                    2   3         +1   6
Knowledge (Arcane)      5   3   3              +5   16
Knowledge (Planes)      5   3   3              +5   16
Knowledge (Religion)      1   2                 +5   8
Knowledge (Dungeoneering)4                         +5   9
Knowledge (Nature)      4                    +5   9
Profession
Sense Motive                 5   3              +0   8
Spellcraft                 5   1   3      +2   +5   16
Use Magical Device              3   4      +(2X)+1   8 (10X)         
Languages: Common, Infernal, Undercommon, Ignan

Known Invocations:
Least (3):
Beguiling Influence (+6 to social checks)
Otherworldy Whispers (+6 to knowledge checks, Planes, Arcana, Religion)
See the Unseen (See Invisible and Darkvision)
Lesser (1):
Fell Flight (30ft. Good maneuverbility)

Slots: 4+3EV, 4+3EV, 2+3EV,  1+3EV
Caster Level: 8 (Fire: 9)

Known Spells: 7*1st, 1*2nd + 2*1st + 2*2nd + 2*2nd + 2*3rd
0: All but Prohibited
1: Ray of Enfeeblement, Magic Missile, True Strike
2: Scorching Ray, Blindness
3: Fireball,

Combat Data:
AC: 17 (Mithril Shirt +1), Touch: 12. HP: 4+4D4+3D6+16HP= ~40HP
Reflex: +4, Fortitude: +4, Will: +9
Attack: +7 ranged touch 3D6 (Eldritch Blast) or spell, or blast+spell.
Spell Failure 10%.

Plans: Switch out Precocious Apprentice for new Feat (Metamagics)
[/spoiler]
(Sorry for the skill-section. CODEBLOCK INFURIATED ME)

I know a few things are not really optimal so far. But i like the potential (and also a great concept and backstory is forming - maybe i will finaly get my GM to let me play lawful evil character). I abandoned the warmage-idea for this character. But under different circumstances... i still think it might be a good fit for warlocks and dual-progression.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 03:07:18 AM by Summerstorm »

Rejakor

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2011, 05:42:08 PM »
Well, it's not a bad character.  Alter Self cheese, although if you hadn't gone warlock/theurge you'd have had polymorph by now.  Still, 10min/day is alright.  Wander around as a lemure or something.

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CantripN

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2011, 10:44:44 PM »
Wait. You put Transmutation as a Prohibited School? Are you quite mad, friend?

Whatever happens, you never, EVER, put Conjuration or Transmutation as Prohibited Schools. Those are the schools that make Wizards awesome.
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Summerstorm

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2011, 10:54:59 PM »
Yeah, thinking about it... But Necromancy is cool though... but hey, why debuff people if they can i just consume them in firey death.

If conjuration would have better area-effects and such i would just dump evocations.
The more i read the spell lists, the more it infuriates me... why are the ORB spells conjuration? They are energy out of nothing - well most of them at least. Shouldn't they be evocations? Or do you gate them in from somewhere?

Well... still fumbling around with this though. MUST FIND perfect fit (then gimp myself for story/fluff reasons *g*)

Gavinfoxx

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2011, 12:10:21 AM »
The two spell schools to drop are generally Enchantment and Evocation.  Many of the best blasting spells -- especially area of effect ones -- are Conjuration.

Conjuration has Hail of Stone, Melf's Unicorn Arrow, the Orb spells, Caustic Smoke, ACID BREATH (your answer to fireball!), Vitriolic Sphere, Freezing Fog, Tunnel Swallow, Deadly Lahar, etc.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 12:13:54 AM by Gavinfoxx »
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Rejakor

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2011, 09:11:10 AM »
Are you quite mad, f(r)iend?

He's a tiefling.

It's pronounced 'fiend'.


I don't ban anything when I arcane cast, because I like having odd spells and utility.  That said, I have occasionally banned abjuration and necromancy, because, as far as I can tell, i'm completely insane.

Depends on your game optimization level, but you can get away with losing conj or trans in a low-op game.  I find 'limited' or 'themed' casters are actually a bit more fun for me to play than batman casters.

SorO_Lost

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2011, 02:46:00 PM »
I've banned Enchantment before, I mean why bother casting spells to replicate what the bard/rogue does with skills?
Every man has his price ;)
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[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
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[/spoiler]

Tshern

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2011, 03:02:07 PM »
I've banned Enchantment before, I mean why bother casting spells to replicate what the bard/rogue does with skills?
Every man has his price ;)
Indeed, 10kgp.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 03:17:27 PM by Tshern »

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SorO_Lost

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2011, 03:14:47 PM »
I've banned Enchantment before, I mean why bother casting spells to replicate what the bard/rogue does with skills?
Every man has his price ;)
Indeed, 10kgp[/url.]
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Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Tshern

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2011, 03:18:31 PM »
"Sorry, I don't know how your so called magic works! I am just a noble trying to read the book of my lord and saviour and acted out of good will!"

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Hasmadad

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Re: Warlock + Warmage (Double the War, double the fun?)
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2011, 02:24:20 PM »
Also needs more Warforged.  ;)

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