Author Topic: Help optimizing an idea...  (Read 3191 times)

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Theomniadept

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Help optimizing an idea...
« on: May 16, 2011, 01:10:08 AM »
So I was looking through the Book of Vile Darkness when I came across the Lifedrinker Prestige Class. I don't have much in the way of preconceived notions about this just yet, be it broken or gimped. So I was looking at the requirements being the race 'vampire'. Well, to become a vampire you have to have 5 HD, so I believe that means you have to be level 13 to be a level 5 (class) Vampire due to +8 LA, and this PrC is 10 levels, so that means it's kinda an epic level thing (unless the entry I read about having less than 4 HD making you a Vampire Spawn just doesn't apply to players or somesuch).

Is there an effective way of optimizing this? I kinda want to build a vampire character (and not in THAT sense, sorta the anti-vampire stereotype vampire) but I'm a little bit hazy on how to synergize the race with classes or this PrC. Also, I want to use all the levels of the PrC, so I don't mean something like taking one level to count as having that class optimized.

Basically, the only requirement (I think) is 5 levels of other classes, from level 1 to level 5 (unless what I'm reading is being interpreted wrong). Feel free to try and fit a prestige class as a normal race in there if possible.

EDIT: Just looked in Libris Mortis and found a 3 level PrC called master Vampire - good addition to this idea, and if Lifedrinker is a really bad choice I may abandon that idea in favor of something else.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 01:27:12 AM by Theomniadept »

Bard

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Re: Help optimizing an idea...
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2011, 01:48:20 AM »
The only requirement is 2 skills with 6 ranks, if you take some class with them as class skills, you only need 3 levels.
Also use the "Creating a Vampire" entry so you don't get the HDs.

Anyway, since you said you don't know if the class it's overpowered or gimped, I'll answer that too. It's the worst thing I ever laid my eyes on. You could do better with commoner levels probably.
Most of his useful abilities improve spells, but the class itself doesn't even increase spellcasting AND you lost like 8 caster levels just by having the vampire template!
So yeah, just don't do it...
The ONLY thing that may be worth saving and you might want to try and improve is Blood Drain (Ex). And it will ONLY work AFTER LEVEL 18!
Basically using Special Attack Boost (Empower) and Special Attack Boost (Maximize) on Greater Blood Drain (Ex), this will allow you to spend 10 lifewell points to deal 9 Con damage (thus getting back 9 lifewell points, effectively spending only one), but even then, you'll need to grapple the target, and you got a 8 Level Adjustment that gives no grappling bonuses whatsoever except a bit from improved Str.

I think you're better off just being a vampire and getting some random other class, abusing of the fact that you can spawn 2 times your HD worth of vampire minions (ideally 2 at your level) that you fully control, and they can get 2 each that they control (and by extension, you control). Plenty of room for abuse there!
[Spoiler]
His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
[/spoiler]

Nox_Noctis

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Re: Help optimizing an idea...
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 03:23:50 AM »
I'm not looking at the Prestige Class, so I can't comment on that, but for being a vampire, you can always dip 1 level into the Vampire Template Class: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a
Of course, there's no guarantee that, if the Prestige Class refers to various vampire abilities, you will actually have them.
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Bard

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Re: Help optimizing an idea...
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 05:16:36 AM »
If he goes for Blood Drain, the PrC actually gives off a better version of it at level 7 iirc, so a one level dip would suffice.
There are two issue tho:
* Is there any rules that say that with the first level only you're already considered a vampire? (you're not even undead at that point!)
* If he wanted to actually play a vampire, that wouldn't be the same thing (even if not having those pesky drawbacks could be nice)
[Spoiler]
His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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Re: Help optimizing an idea...
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 06:54:19 PM »
From Nox's link: "Characters are not required to complete
all the levels of a given template class in uninterrupted succession."


Class X 6 ... just reaching level 7,
takes level 1 of Vamp Racial Class.
Now X 6 + 1 L A.
At level 8 takes level 2 of Vamp Racial Class,
immediately starts LA buy-off.
Now X 6 + 1 L A , with 1LA bought off, so far.
Starts catching up to the party via Experience Is A River.


create spawn (su) ... looks like extra goodies, right off the bat.
 :smirk

Amechra

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Re: Help optimizing an idea...
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2011, 12:48:10 AM »
I suggest playing this in Gestalt, if you can convince your DM to play such a game...
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Theomniadept

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Re: Help optimizing an idea...
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 02:17:16 AM »
awaken DM, you'll have to explain that to me, I personally never understood how LA buyoff worked myself. Then again I never understood why LA problems existed with stuff like Aasimar, I mean it's a lousy 1000 xp, sure early on it hurts but by high levels any good item creation's set another back that far, plus death takes a heavier toll.

Yeah, I suspected the class would get bashed, I just wondered if I missed some odd little system abuse thing. That said I think it's a 3.0 book and the weird font always seemed to clash with the other 3.5 stuff, not to mention stuff like Soul Eater having full BAB and all good saves.

But yeah, anyways, so if I'm going to make a vampire (yeah yeah, LA gets its ass handed to itself in an argument anywhere outside of Pixie) with the little 3 level PrC to augment spawns and such, what's the best 9-level route to take as far as ability synergies and such go?

Nunkuruji

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Re: Help optimizing an idea...
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 01:42:12 PM »
At a glance,

Half-Vampire (w/Blood Drain), Katane?(DR313) or partial savage progression Vampire
Ur-Priest, Divine Crusader, or Shadow Templar for fast casting levels. Maybe even Mystic Ranger.
Some Number of Lifedrinker levels squeezed in

Not great or high-tier, but perhaps at least functional in the sense of being able to use the class abilities.

Mushroom

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Re: Help optimizing an idea...
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 01:51:28 PM »

X-Codes

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Re: Help optimizing an idea...
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2011, 05:23:22 PM »
awaken DM, you'll have to explain that to me, I personally never understood how LA buyoff worked myself. Then again I never understood why LA problems existed with stuff like Aasimar, I mean it's a lousy 1000 xp, sure early on it hurts but by high levels any good item creation's set another back that far, plus death takes a heavier toll.
Item Creation actually reduces your XP total and causes you to gain XP at an increased rate once you get to the point where you're a level behind the party.  LA doesn't do that, and, in the case of the Aasimar, there is nothing granted by the race that compensates for that lost level.

But yeah, anyways, so if I'm going to make a vampire (yeah yeah, LA gets its ass handed to itself in an argument anywhere outside of Pixie) with the little 3 level PrC to augment spawns and such, what's the best 9-level route to take as far as ability synergies and such go?
I assumes you mean Master Vampire.  The best route to take would be any sort of charisma-based non-casting character.  Hexblade, Paladin of Tyrrany, etc.

awaken DM golem

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Re: Help optimizing an idea...
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2011, 09:26:44 PM »
X mentions Experience Is A River, which works an exp "trick" basically the same way.


LA+1 and you reach 4th level.
You are 3rd level + 1LA, the rest of the party is 4th level.
You LA Buy-Off.
You are 3rd level + OLA, and you don't need to mention LA anymore.
You are 3rd level, the party is 4th level.

You adventure and gain exp, but you gain it faster because you are a level down.
You are 4th level, the party is 4.666 level. (faster exp rate here)
You are 4.333 level, the party is 5th level. (same exp rate here)
this pattern repeats, but the easy math is 2/3 exp ... so I'm shorthanding the rest of it.

You are 5th level, the party is 5+(4/9) level.
You are 6th level, the party is 6+(8/27) level.
You are 7th level, the party is 7+(16/81) level. (if you round it to 16/80, you get 1/5)
You are 8th level, the party is 8+(2/15) level. (1/5 * 2/3 =)

You are 9th level, the party is 9+(4/45) level. (if you round it to 1/10)
You are 10th level, the party is 10+(2/30) level. (if you round it to 1/15)
So at this point you are less than 1 encounters worth of exp behind the rest of the party.
1/13.333 is the ~approximate game math. Basically you've caught up.

You might have been awarded more/less/different exp depending on party situation.
At or during 11th level, you are less than 1/2 an encounter behind.
And you got a "free" LA's worth of goodies. Maybe it was worth it.

If you have LA+2 it starts at level 6+2=8.
There's an extra buy off level in there.
It delays the catch up by about 1 level.
Maybe it's worth it. Sometimes it is.
You get to do the math on that one ...  ;)