Author Topic: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.  (Read 3507 times)

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Kuroimaken

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So.

I'm getting my old group together again, and we're playing Pathfinder. Because SOMEHOW it's more balanced than 3.5...

I'm trying to get my DM to switch back liiiiiiiiiiiiiittle by little, but in the meantime, I COULD use some build advice.

First the basics. The character is a human ranger (going on Assassin, it's a background thing).

Stats, as best as I can remember them anyway...

STR 15, DEX 13, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 12, CHA 10

Feats: Weapon Focus (Shortsword), Intimidating Prowess, TWF/Track (Ranger Bonuses).

I'm going for Dazzling Display for my next feat, but I'm going to need more options until I get to Assassin (my favorite enemies are vanilla humans, and the DM did imply this is going to be a heavily human-centric campaign, but I won't be fighting them all the time). Intimidation options are particularly nice.

Let's keep multiclassing to a minimum if we can, hmmm?
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Lycanthromancer

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 07:17:34 PM »
I'm kind of surprised you're not making a wizard. Y'know, because they're 'balanced' now.
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I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
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oslecamo

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 07:28:09 PM »
I'm kind of surprised you're not making a wizard. Y'know, because they're 'balanced' now.

Polymorph, shapechange and friends thrown out of a cliff screaming. No easy free metamagic. No celerity or craft contigency. Walls of Iron are worthless Even with the extra abilities thrown in for free by PF, wizards are still more balanced than in 3.5.

So you could abuse a wizard in PF I guess, but you could abuse it even more in 3.5.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 07:45:05 PM »
I'm kind of surprised you're not making a wizard. Y'know, because they're 'balanced' now.

Polymorph, shapechange and friends thrown out of a cliff screaming. No easy free metamagic. No celerity or craft contigency. Walls of Iron are worthless Even with the extra abilities thrown in for free by PF, wizards are still more balanced than in 3.5.

So you could abuse a wizard in PF I guess, but you could abuse it even more in 3.5.

Pyrotechnics still works.


Just sayin.


[spoiler][/spoiler]


Kuroimaken

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2011, 08:17:15 PM »
Eh, it's also part of an ongoing effort to shove it in their faces that I'm not a munchkin and all.

Anyhoo, couple of options come to mind for intimidation purposes:

Dreadful Carnage: Drop a foe, get free intimidation check, all foes within 30 feet. Not bad at all, really. Requires Furious Focus (when wielding a two-handed weapon and using Power Attack, your first attack takes no penalties; I can get around the two-handed weapon bit with a quarterstaff) and Power Attack. It's not gonna happen very soon though, +11 base attack bonus requirement is a BITCH.

Enforcer: Deal nonlethal damage, free Intimidate, opponent is shaken for (damage) rounds. If critical, opponent is frightened for one round then shaken for (damage) rounds. Considering regular demoralize takes up a standard action and only lasts one round... may have to talk over with my DM about this). I'm currently looking up if the fear stacking rules have changed. (Technically, wouldn't each strike be a new source of fear?)
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Bester

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2011, 08:26:38 PM »
dropping things in pits seems to work just fine for our sorcerer in E6(borderline broken even).  Battlefield control remains intact.  Best thing from Pathfinder?  A skill system that is usable for noncasters.

If you go with Ranger, do not select the guide substitutions from Advanced Players unless you are using 3.5 stuff.  I am playing a tiefling paragon (HB using tiefling PF chart)//guide ranger and have a bunch of favored enemy related feats.  Without those feats, that alternate sucks.  With those feats, I declare up to 2 things per day my enemy and they die really fast.

I'd take a closer look at the advanced player's substitutions and try to get what's best for you.

Kuroimaken

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2011, 08:34:38 PM »
Infiltrator doesn't seem too bad, considering that I probably won't get that much out of favored terrain anyway (I'm making Ranger 6 my cutoff point before I go into Assassin).
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Akalsaris

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2011, 02:49:18 AM »
Haven't the demoralize rules changed? I seem to recall that now it can last longer than 1 round...

AleksanderTheGreat

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2011, 05:59:10 AM »
No easy free metamagic.
Universalist Wizard.
Quote from: Sephirothsword117
Quote from: Solo
Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.
I'm inclined to disagree. People work hard on there characters, there personality, back ground, appearance, so forth. No one wants there character that they have invested time, energy, thought, and probably emotion in to be killed because they didn't take strong enough feats or skills or spells or what have you.

Kuroimaken

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2011, 01:34:59 PM »
Haven't the demoralize rules changed? I seem to recall that now it can last longer than 1 round...

Yes, for every 5 or more you beat the DC, the duration extends by one round. Not that many ways to increase the modifier though.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


juton

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2011, 01:48:05 PM »
No easy free metamagic.
Universalist Wizard.

Yeah but it doesn't let you cast a modified spell with a level above what you can normally cast.

Whether the Pathfinder Wizard is stronger or weaker than its 3.5 counterpart depends on how you played 3.5. Spells like Alter Self give amazing versatility in 3.5 but aren't generally worth memorizing in Pathfinder. Your save DCs are increased slightly and you get more HP in Pathfinder, which may encourage you to stay in your original form and spam save-or-lose spells, which is closer to the imagined Wizard ideal of a magical artillery piece.

This debate has gone on and on, at this point you can assume if a person doesn't like the PF Wizard it's because the nerfs hamper their play style, if a person likes the PF Wizard it's because the buffs go well with their play style. Shouting that it's better or worse than 3.5 may be heard as cries of 'your playing it wrong'.

Mixster

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Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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Prime32

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2011, 02:09:57 PM »
Yes, for every 5 or more you beat the DC, the duration extends by one round. Not that many ways to increase the modifier though.
There's a feat which adds Str to Intimidate checks, orcs and half-orcs get Intimidate bonuses, inquisitors get Intimidate bonuses, some favoured class options grant Intimidate bonuses.

The antipaladin can remove other creatures' immunity to fear... and then you run into a standard-archetype fighter who has Bravery. :p


There's some way to "compress" your demoralisation into cowering your opponent for 1 round, but I can't recall what it was.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 02:12:00 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Kuroimaken

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2011, 02:24:16 PM »
Yes, for every 5 or more you beat the DC, the duration extends by one round. Not that many ways to increase the modifier though.
There's a feat which adds Str to Intimidate checks, orcs and half-orcs get Intimidate bonuses, inquisitors get Intimidate bonuses, some favoured class options grant Intimidate bonuses.

The antipaladin can remove other creatures' immunity to fear... and then you run into a standard-archetype fighter who has Bravery. :p


There's some way to "compress" your demoralisation into cowering your opponent for 1 round, but I can't recall what it was.
Already took it. And the character is human. Need info about the inquisitor and this cowering method.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Prime32

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2011, 03:05:54 PM »
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/half-orc
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue

A half-orc inquisitor 20 gets +22 to Intimidate checks (+2 half-orc, +10 inquisitor, +10 favoured class).

A 1st-level Thug rogue gets +1 round of shaken and can convert 4+ rounds to 1 round of frightened - I'd ask for a houserule so only the first 4 rounds are affected. Note that Intimidating Prowess is available as a rogue talent every even level, and that Thug can be combined with Scout (which emulates the 3.5e class of the same name). Thus you might take as many as 4 rogue levels so that you can charge an opponent and cause them to become both sickened for 2 rounds and shaken for ?+1 rounds.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 03:26:57 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Kuroimaken

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Re: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I need help with Pathfinder.
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2011, 03:50:20 PM »
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/half-orc
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue

A half-orc inquisitor 20 gets +22 to Intimidate checks (+2 half-orc, +10 inquisitor, +10 favoured class).

A 1st-level Thug rogue gets +1 round of shaken and can convert 4+ rounds to 1 round of frightened - I'd ask for a houserule so only the first 4 rounds are affected. Note that Intimidating Prowess is available as a rogue talent every even level, and that Thug can be combined with Scout (which emulates the 3.5e class of the same name). Thus you might take as many as 4 rogue levels so that you can charge an opponent and cause them to become both sickened for 2 rounds and shaken for ?+1 rounds.

I'm actually considering asking for a reflavoring of antipaladin. Inquisitor seems pretty nice, but it's better as a mainstay class rather than a dip, which would be the most likely case.

EDIT: Hmmm, seems like a pretty nifty feature to combine with Enforcer. "OHI SNEAK ATTACK NOW GET ON THE GROUND BITCH!!"
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 03:52:15 PM by Kuroimaken »
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!