Author Topic: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric  (Read 4106 times)

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Callix

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Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« on: July 20, 2008, 10:10:09 PM »
This is for a PbP game of explicitly overpowered characters. I'm looking to make a buffer/support caster abusing DMM (Persist) and Reach Spell.

Race: Currently looking at Phrenic Human. I know there's a lot of improvement available from this, but I'm not sure where to go.
Current Build: Cloistered Cleric 5/Divine Oracle 10/Thaumaturgist 5
Domains: Planning, Magic, Knowledge.
Flaws: Noncombatant, Vulnerable
Feats: Extend Spell (Planning)
Persistent Spell (1)
Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) (H)
Knowledge Devotion (F1)
Reach Spell (F2)
Divine Metamagic (Reach Spell) (3)
Chain Spell (6)
Divine Metamagic (Chain Spell) (9)
Extra Turning (12)
Leadership (15) (Artificer cohort for making Nightsticks)
... Open Feat (18)

We have the DM's permission to abuse nightsticks. The point is to make completely overpowered (though not theoretically unstoppable, eg Pun-Pun) characters and see what they can face.

For the (not so low) cost of 13 turn attempts, I can drop a touch-range buff on the entire party for the whole day.

Also, I'm looking at an Erinyes for Planar Cohort, though if anyone knows of a Lawful Good ECL 18 outsider that tops it, tell me, because then I can dip Church Inquisitor.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: swapped Ocular for Reach. Too slow in combat.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 10:15:37 PM by Callix »
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Tshern

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2008, 10:15:13 PM »
So you can either take a lawful evil or a lawful good planar ally?

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Callix

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2008, 10:19:02 PM »
So you can either take a lawful evil or a lawful good planar ally?
I can shuffle my alignment wherever, but I need to be a cleric of a Lawful Good deity for Church Inquisitor. So suggest planar cohorts as you please.

I just saw "charm monster at will" and went "shiny".
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AndyJames

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2008, 10:43:21 PM »
You can enter Church Inquisitor at level 3 Cleric.

May I suggest the Magical Training feat or something or other that gives you spells cast as per arcane caster of level 1 (from FR somewhere), and then go into Dweomerkeeper for no CL loss?

JanusJones

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2008, 01:45:36 AM »
Aw mang.  I want IN.  I wanna play my infinite damage loop DFA!   :D

Callix

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2008, 03:07:25 AM »
Aw mang.  I want IN.  I wanna play my infinite damage loop DFA!   :D
It's on GITP here

And I was actually going to play your DFA, but I couldn't settle on a build, and we need a cleric. I think there's still room.

EDIT: Magical Training and Dweomerkeeper looks much better. Thank you.

Current Build: Phrenic (LA bought back) Human Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Divine Oracle 10/Dweomerkeeper 5
Feats: Extend Spell (Planning)
Persistent Spell (1)
Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) (H)
Magical Training (Sorceror) (F1)
Knowledge Devotion (F2)
Reach Spell (3)
Divine Metamagic (Reach Spell) (6)
Chain Spell (9)
Divine Metamagic (Chain Spell) (12)
Extra Turning (15)
Leadership (18) (Artificer cohort for making Nightsticks)

Mantle of Spells suggestions? I've got 1 8th or lower and two 9th or lower.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 03:41:25 AM by Callix »
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AfterCrescent

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2008, 05:58:10 AM »
Why only DK 5? The capstone ability is sweet. And you should qualify for that feat (easy metamagic?) DMM Persist for 5 turn attempts is pretty nice.
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Callix

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2008, 07:45:48 AM »
Why only DK 5? The capstone ability is sweet. And you should qualify for that feat (easy metamagic?) DMM Persist for 5 turn attempts is pretty nice.
Because DO 10 has a pretty nifty capstone, too. I like never getting ambushed in Op Level 5.

Still, that capstone is very nifty for this build, as it saves 3 turn attempts per Persistent Party BuffTM. And going back to Divine Oracle 2 opens up Contemplative 1 or 2, or even Church Inquisitor 5.

I'm pretty flush for feats. I'd be losing either Knowledge Devotion or DMM (Chain Spell) to get Easy Metamagic. Might be worth it, but...
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Tshern

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2008, 08:12:37 AM »
And doesn't Dweomerkeeper require an item creation feat?

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AndyJames

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2008, 08:14:00 AM »
Yes.

AfterCrescent

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2008, 08:35:46 PM »
Drop Knowledge Devotion for your Item Creation feat. Once you have the 5 ranks needed in a knowledge skill, swap about the knowledge domain (or inquisition domain) for knowledge devotion, ala complete champion p. 53.  I'd also recommend dropping leadership or extra turning for easy metamagic. You can either have your artificer make enough rods that you don't need the feat or just buy enough that you don't need the artificer.
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Callix

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2008, 08:46:01 PM »
That looks like it might work, although Complete Champion says you can swap a domain for *that domain's* devotion feat. Any ideas on how to get it back?

I'll pitch Extra Turning for Easy Metamagic. I think I'll be casting more than four persistent spells per day, so that's a profit.
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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2008, 08:49:58 PM »
Well you can swap either Inquisition or Knowledge domains for Knowledge Devotion. (By the sidebar on page 53, it states that inquisition counts as Knowledge for the purpose of trading domains). Also, if you end up taking DK 10 (I highly suggest it), you can put back in 3 levels, One of which could be contemplative to get the domain back, if you want it.
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Caelic

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2008, 10:44:02 PM »
Question: how can you drop a touch-ranged buff for the whole day?  Has the DM houseruled that touch spells are valid targets for Persist, or is there something else in the build I'm overlooking?

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2008, 10:47:23 PM »
Reach spell gives a touch spell 30' range, which has been argued back and forth as to whether or not that works. I just figured since he's taking it, it probably does. Metamagic rods of Ocular Spell and Reach Spell also fit the bill, assuming the DM doesn't shoot it down.
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Callix

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2008, 10:52:08 PM »
Well you can swap either Inquisition or Knowledge domains for Knowledge Devotion. (By the sidebar on page 53, it states that inquisition counts as Knowledge for the purpose of trading domains). Also, if you end up taking DK 10 (I highly suggest it), you can put back in 3 levels, One of which could be contemplative to get the domain back, if you want it.
Supernatural Miracles is very tempting in Op level 5, and there's always Persistent Foresight (thank you, Knowledge Domain)...

OK. Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 5/Dweomerkeeper 10/Contemplative 2
Domains: Planning, Magic, Knowledge, Luck. Swap Inquisiton for Knowledge Devotion.
Flaws: Noncombatant, Vulnerable
Feats: Extend Spell (Domain)
Magical Training (Sorceror) (1)
Persistent Spell (H)
Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) (F1)
Reach Spell (F2)
Craft Wondrous Item (3)
Knowledge Devotion (Swapped with Inquisition domain)
Divine Metamagic (Reach Spell) (6)
Chain Spell (9)
Divine Metamagic (Chain Spell) (12)
Easy Metamagic (Persistent Spell) (15)
Leadership (18)

Mantle of Spells: 1. Either Break Enchantment or Revivify. Not sure which.
2. Heal is hard to pass up. Cometfall can be nifty, but Heal.
3. Spell Turning. Thank you, Magic domain.
4. Not really anything here. AMF is no good for a buff cleric. I'm looking at Holy Aura or Greater Spell Immunity, but I can't decide.
5. It's hard to top Miracle.

Thank you all, that feels like a build.

And yes, I'm assuming that this works, but it's a cheesed-out game. The 1d2 Crusader was listed as an acceptable level of cheese in the OP, and I think Reach + Persist is fairly similar.
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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2008, 12:30:59 AM »
In this kind of situation, I recommend looking at various situations you might be in and seeing how you would fare.
- antimagic ? (If Initiate of Mystra is available, you should get it.)

- you are surrounded by big brutes: what do you do ? (Holy Word, probably, but you can't cast it all day. Still, it's a good Mantle spell.)

...

Apparently, the Chaos spells are ok, so be an Elf and get extra feats that way. I would really recommend getting Shapechange somehow, because it's often a free get-out-of-jail card.

I personally prefer Archivists for high-level optimization, but they're not as compatible with Dweomerkeeper (you lose a CL).
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JanusJones

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Re: Optimisation Level 5: DMM (Persist) Cleric
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2008, 01:01:15 AM »
d00d.  You didn't even quote me on the build.  Bad form!   :-\

But thanks on the heads-up.  I'm registering and trying it out.