Author Topic: Tome of Battle  (Read 33269 times)

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Littha

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #140 on: August 08, 2011, 07:28:47 PM »
I always assumed they were intended to be able to use tower shields, because it doesn't say otherwise and crusaders are the tank class of the initiators.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #141 on: August 08, 2011, 07:55:38 PM »
I always assumed they were intended to be able to use tower shields, because it doesn't say otherwise and crusaders are the tank class of the initiators.

It's possible. My only counter-arguments are that they usually explicitly mention it as they did with the Fighter and that none of the sample Crusaders own one (only one has a Shield though, and he's 4th level). Not much of an argument.


Found something: Shield Counter uses the shield bash action, but makes no mention of if the bash deals damage normally or not. Changing.





Oh, fuck. I somehow managed to completely overlook Desert Wind during the Maneuvers section. I'll fix it soon.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Littha

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #142 on: August 08, 2011, 11:15:38 PM »
It is rather difficult to have usually when there is only one other class in the game with tower shield proficiency (as far as I know)

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #143 on: August 09, 2011, 12:52:14 AM »
It is rather difficult to have usually when there is only one other class in the game with tower shield proficiency (as far as I know)

Not that it makes much difference from an optimization standpoint, but I get the idea.


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snakeman830

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #144 on: August 09, 2011, 11:48:55 AM »
Control Shape is not necessary for Bloodclaw Master's as a class skill.  The only reason for Control Shape to be used is for Afflicted Lycanthropes, but they get it as an automatic class skill.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #145 on: August 09, 2011, 12:30:27 PM »
Control Shape is not necessary for Bloodclaw Master's as a class skill.  The only reason for Control Shape to be used is for Afflicted Lycanthropes, but they get it as an automatic class skill.

I put that in there to see who was paying attention. Congrats, you're the only one who said something about it.


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Catty Nebulart

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #146 on: September 04, 2011, 04:15:02 PM »
Quote from: IHS consensus
Any Planar Trait. Since Planar Traits are ongoing effects, the effect of Iron Heart Surge only suppresses the Planar Trait until the end of the initiator's next turn (when the benefits of Iron Heart Surge technically end).

Additionally, some effects can be reinstated at any point during the rest of the round, after you have initiated Iron Heart Surge (for example, a vampire's weakness to sunlight will reinstate its effects at the end of the vampire's turn, unless he uses his move action to exit the sunlight. The move action would be possible immediately after initiating Iron Heart Surge).

In case of Iron Heart Surge affecting a spell or other ability that affects an area (such as the web spell), the entire effect is ended for everyone involved when Iron Heart Surge resolves.
:lmao
I see you still have not fixed the fact that IHS can suspend gravity on the prime material, if only temporarily. Give it a max radius for the suppressed effect like 60 ft or something, so that it will cover the party, but usually not entire planes.  :eh
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Garryl

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #147 on: September 04, 2011, 04:33:16 PM »
Why is IHS even affecting planar traits? It never did before (they aren't conditions and they don't have durations of 1 round or more, assuming they even have durations at all it would be instantaneous).

On a related note, I finished a first draft of a revised definition of effects for a "simple" fix to Iron Heart Surge. It's beyond the scope of this project, but I still wanted to mention it.

Officially, we're on to items, now, right? The Martial Discipline weapon enhancement should clarify explicitly whether it counts being in a stance as being enough to give the full bonus (especially since I think we made stances even more explicitly different form regular maneuvers, but I don't remember and am too lazy to confirm). Ditto for the Martial Scripts and maneuver items (Crown of White Ravens and friends), they ought to be explicit about allowing or not allowing the granting of stances (I vote for not; stances are more powerful than individual maneuvers, generally).
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #148 on: September 05, 2011, 12:19:09 AM »
Chalk the IHS problems to no editing. I'll fix that problem.


We're actually on the Legacy items, but there isn't much that I can see that needs it.


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snakeman830

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #149 on: September 09, 2011, 10:38:17 PM »
What is up with Fire Snake and it's duration?  It has an instantaneous duration, but it also says "It can move up to 60 feet each round".
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 10:40:41 PM by snakeman830 »
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Garryl

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #150 on: September 09, 2011, 11:41:19 PM »
I thought that was among the few things that were actually addressed in the real errata. I was right, sort of. The issue about moving each round was addressed, but the errata cuts out in the middle of the next paragraph's first sentence. Given the context, I think the remaining, cut errata was meant to clean up the remaining bits about movement over multiple rounds instead of being an instantaneous standard line that the initial bit modified. It might even have removed the restrictions about difficult terrain hampering its movement/length, or just clarified it with respect to length instead of movement (just speculation on my part).
A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
[/spoiler]

Empirate

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #151 on: September 22, 2011, 07:02:24 AM »
I have a question which doesn't seem to have been adressed yet: If you take up a PrC that grants martial progression, does it also allow you to exchange lower-level maneuvers for higher-level ones at regular intervals (like the martial base classes do)? It kinda sucks to have a Cleric 1/Crusader 4/Ruby Knight Vindicator with only one of each 3rd, 4th, and 5th level maneuvers, but a ton of 1st level ones which won't be much use anymore and will clutter up your maneuvers readied/granted.
Since there is no actual rules text that PrCs allow this maneuvers known-swapping, I assume you can't do it - but that's evidence ex negativo, which I'm not comfortable with.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #152 on: October 02, 2011, 07:47:50 PM »
I have a question which doesn't seem to have been adressed yet: If you take up a PrC that grants martial progression, does it also allow you to exchange lower-level maneuvers for higher-level ones at regular intervals (like the martial base classes do)? It kinda sucks to have a Cleric 1/Crusader 4/Ruby Knight Vindicator with only one of each 3rd, 4th, and 5th level maneuvers, but a ton of 1st level ones which won't be much use anymore and will clutter up your maneuvers readied/granted.
Since there is no actual rules text that PrCs allow this maneuvers known-swapping, I assume you can't do it - but that's evidence ex negativo, which I'm not comfortable with.

The FAQ has addressed this in the past, and I'm honestly on the edge with their opinion. The FAQ states that PrCs do not allow swapping. I want to side with it because it makes the PrCs less attractive. I want to side against it because the PrCs aren't required for most martial adepts (seeing as even Swordsage 20 is a decent build, and is capable of contributing to numerous situations whereas Shadowsun Ninja isn't always capable of the same thing).


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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #153 on: October 07, 2011, 03:23:38 PM »
Updates:

Reworded Firesnake (again), deleting any mention of it's duration from the text.

Removed the Planar Trait trick from IHS, so no more shutting off gravity. You'll need a Shadow Hand or Desert Wind stance for that.

Finished the Legacy Item section.

Split the errata's post due to word count. Yeah, there was more than 40,000 characters worth of errata for the Bo9S.

Onto the magic item section.


Martial Scripts
[spoiler]Would anyone object to just straight-up deleting these? Seriously, they make absolutely no sense at all.[/spoiler]

Weapon Special Abilities
[spoiler]I'm very hesitant about tweaking Aptitude at all. The Lightning Maces combo is just a case of poor foresight on WotC's behalf, and all it does is create an attack combo.

Other than providing clearer text for the Discipline Weapon ability, I really don't see anything wrong here.[/spoiler]

Crown of White Ravens
[spoiler]And it's ilk.
Should they grant stances?
Are the maneuvers granted by it in addition to your maneuvers known?
Should they count towards prerequisites for other maneuvers?
Should they require you to ready the maneuver as normal, or should they work like Martial Study?

At the very least, I think these items should not be allowed to stack with ones from the same discipline (thus you can't combine two Crowns of White Ravens and get two White Raven maneuvers.[/spoiler]


I'm probably going to take that last section to the Min/Max forums for more discussion.


[spoiler][/spoiler]


RobbyPants

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #155 on: October 07, 2011, 03:54:32 PM »
While I've never used them, I don't see the point in deleting them. I have to agree with Oslecamo.
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #156 on: October 07, 2011, 03:58:40 PM »
I strongly object. It may not be to everybody's tastes, but I love how it can replicate the concept of instantly learning super moves trough sacred sheets of paper written by masters.

And then instantly forgetting them, combine with leaving the sheet blank afterwards.

Scrolls at least make sense if you've read Jack Vance's works (the inspiration for the Vanican casting system). It makes 0 sense that maneuvers work the same way.


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RobbyPants

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #157 on: October 07, 2011, 05:25:34 PM »
Isn't this beyond the purview of errata, though? If you don't want to use them in your games, then don't.
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Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #158 on: October 07, 2011, 05:40:36 PM »
Isn't this beyond the purview of errata, though? If you don't want to use them in your games, then don't.

True enough.


[spoiler][/spoiler]