Author Topic: Tome of Battle  (Read 33266 times)

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Garryl

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #100 on: June 18, 2011, 12:42:46 PM »
I just found a couple of typos in the feats table on page 30-31.

[spoiler]
Extra Granted Maneuver - It doesn't let you ready more maneuvers. The benefit should say something like "Grant an additional maneuver from your maneuvers readied".
Shadow Blade - Requirements are one SH stance, not just any maneuver.
Shadow Trickster - Requirements are CL 1 and one SH strike, not a SH stance. Gives a +2 bonus to Illusion save DCs, not +1.
White Raven Defense - Requirements are one WR stance, not just any maneuver
[/spoiler]

Also, for future reference when we get to the PrCs
[spoiler]
Bloodstorm Blade lacks the text of other PrCs adding the full level to IL, but this should be made clear in the PrCs and IL section or something.

Shadow Sun Ninja - Flame of the Shadow Sun's fire bolt can never actually be used. To use it, you need to spend a swift action on the turn after you spend an immediate action, which consumes the swift action by definition. I'd suggest changing the swift action fire bolt to a free action.
Darkness Within Light makes an erroneous reference to being deafened in the first line of the final paragraph. Nowhere else in the ability does it mention being deafened, only blinded (and ignoring pinpoint-capable senses, of which hearing/the Listen skill only applies if you beat the opponent's Move Silently by 20).

[/spoiler]
A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
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[/spoiler]

Bozwevial

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #101 on: June 18, 2011, 05:05:53 PM »
I'd like to add to Garryl's corrections that the short description of the Shadow Blade feat disagrees with the text.

Ithamar

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #102 on: June 21, 2011, 03:23:04 PM »
Has anyone mentioned the BAB on the Swordsage table being messed up?  It gains +1 BAB at level 13, not at level 14 like normal for a 3/4 BAB class.
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #103 on: June 26, 2011, 04:09:28 AM »
Moving onto the PrCs now.

Does anyone find it odd that three of the eight PrCs in this book do not offer stance advancement (BCM, BSB, and DSS do not have a stance progression)?

And then there's the whole problem with the Idiot Crusader builds. Those need clarifying, but I'm very unfamiliar with the exploits involved, and need some help with that.

Bloodclaw Master
[spoiler]Superior Two Weapon Fighting makes no mention of Multiattack, one of the possible entries into the PrC (and claws are a Tiger Claw weapon).

Rending Claws has no action listed, and should either require a Swift action (making it optional) or no action (making it mandatory).[/spoiler]

Bloodstorm Blade
[spoiler]The skill list seems a little light for 4+Int.

Clarifying if BSB advances IL (it clearly does not have a maneuver progression).

Should Returning Attacks cost a maneuver to use? The advanced version doesn't (or should we reverse this?).

Reword Martial Throw so it actually works with Ranged attacks (because as-written, it just says you can use Strikes with Thrown weapons).

Reword Blade Storm so it actually works.[/spoiler]

Deepstone Sentinel
[spoiler]Mountain Fortress Stance can provide high ground, but doesn't mention it.

Crashing Mountain Juggernaut allows you to charge, but the enemies affected prevent it. Change this to enable charging.

Dragon's Tooth has no duration, and can be used at will. Seems a little stupid (although it's largely useless outside of constructing buildings or creating obstacles). Also add in a limitation on occupied spaces (to prevent it from being used to damage buildings).

Awaken the Stone Dragon only affects enemies. I'd like to clarify it so there's no possible misunderstanding here.[/spoiler]

Eternal Blade
[spoiler]Clarify the Eternal Training's insight bonus to attack rolls so that it's either determined when you gain the ability or when you activate it. It also has a typo on the second benefit (mentioning a Crusader/Eternal Defender instead of Eternal Blade).

Clarify Guided Strike's uses/day (it looks like it is meant to be unlimited, but I'm not sure).

Armored Uncanny Dodge literally serves no additional purpose, since Uncanny Dodge can be used even when wearing heavy armor anyway.

Clarify Eternal Knowledge so it's actually useful for something (as written, it can never provide more than a DC10 Knowledge check because it's untrained).

Should we change Defensive Insight to an Immediate action? It would be more useful that way.[/spoiler]

Jade Phoenix Mage
[spoiler]First and foremost, fix the Skills.

Include a clause in Empowering Strike so that it doesn't alter the casting time of the spell for Spontaneous Casters. Same with Quickening Strike.[/spoiler]

Master of Nine
[spoiler]I'm not seeing any problems here. Is there anything wrong with it?[/spoiler]

Ruby Knight Vindicator
[spoiler]Should there be a per round limit on Divine Impetus?

Divine Fury should be a part of the action required to initiate the strike, not a free action (since it's abusable as a free action).[/spoiler]

Shadowsun Ninja
[spoiler]The Monk Abilities class feature mentions not having Monk levels, but still progresses Stunning Fist without providing it. Add in a clause about it granting Stunning Fist without the prerequisites to fix that.

I feel we need to clarify something on Touch of the Shadow Sun's damage value, be it for increased size categories or against them. As written, its either based on your racial Unarmed Strike value or on your Monk Unarmed Strike. Also clarify that you cannot use it in reverse order (heal first then negative damage). And a clause about not discharging the healing should be added (since it is possible to not have the Swift action or Standard action needed to use it).

Darkness Within Light has extra text that implies something, but has no additional effects.[/spoiler]


Did I miss anything major here?


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Garryl

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #104 on: June 26, 2011, 05:51:37 AM »
About stance progressions, no it does not seem odd to me. Of the three that you mention, two are 5-level PrCs and one doesn't progress maneuvers at all. Not granting stances over 5 levels is not absurd as, other than the Swordsage, the base classes rarely get a new stance every 5 levels, and even the 10-level PrCs usually only grant 1 stance over their levels (RKV being the exceptions). D&D does have a strong tendency to round things down, rather than up. Notably, however, these stance-less classes do grant stance-like abilities (Mountain Fortress Stance, Shifting (a bit of a stretch), and Eye of the Storm/Blood Rain).

About the Idiot Crusader, it comes from having more maneuvers readied to your Crusader progression than you have maneuvers known, thus putting you into the grey area of not being able to ready all of your maneuvers and, more importantly, bringing your functional maneuvers readied closer to your maneuvers granted on each reset. You can actually pull off the same mechanically acrobatics with Warblade and Swordsage progression, but you don't get anything for it. The simplest change to fix it is to change how the amount of granted maneuvers (both initially and after resetting) are defined. Instead of being a specific amount that is coincidentally 3 less than your normal allotment of readied maneuvers, actually define it at 3 fewer than your total readied Crusader maneuvers. That also makes adding extra readied/granted maneuvers from other sources really easy to define (you don't have to even mention the special case of Crusaders and granted maneuvers any more as changing the number readied automatically changes the number granted).

Bloodclaw Master
[spoiler]
Claws of the Beast also should apply the full Strength bonus to secondary natural attacks with TC weapons (ie: claws) if you're planning on letting Superior TWF work with Multiattack.

[/spoiler]

Bloodstorm Blade
[spoiler]
BSB does not, as written, advance full IL. It lacks the text that other PrCs have indicating that you add your full PrC level to your IL.

How does Blade Storm not work? You make one attack against each of any number of opponents. Normally, you'd run out of thrown weapons after the first attack, but Lightning Ricochet takes care of that for you.
   Oh, it's only a single attack, not one for each enemy. That's... strange. If I had to change it, I'd change it to letting you make one ranged attack with a thrown weapon against each enemy within range, similar to Whirlwind Attack letting you attack each enemy within your reach.

[/spoiler]

Deepstone Sentinel
[spoiler]
Agreed on all counts except Dragon's Tooth. I kinda like it as is (permanent duration). Clarifying the interactions (if any) with existing structures may be a good idea.

[/spoiler]

Eternal Blade
[spoiler]
Blade Guide should clarify what happens to it when it reappears. Does it still have as many hit points as before (ie: possibly less than 0)? What about spell effects that may be on it (I can suddenly imagine casting an aura-type effect on it and having it use that to damage enemies around corners, or casting Death Throes-type spells on it and "suiciding" it like an eternal Baneling).

Things without a limit on their uses usually have no limit on their uses. This is as true of Guided Strike as it is of Defensive Insight, Tactical Insight, at will abilities, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, skill uses, etc.

Armored Uncanny Dodge's references to wearing armor are indeed erroneous and irrelevant. However, the ability should still be differentiated from the normal form of Uncanny Dodge as relies on the presence of your Blade Guide.

[/spoiler]

Jade Phoenix Mage
[spoiler]
If by fix the skills you mean adding Spellcraft and some or all Knowledges (at least arcana, history, and religion), I agree.

[/spoiler]

Master of Nine
[spoiler]
I might remove the "at the beginning of the day" part from Mastery of Nine. You can change your maneuvers readied throughout the day pretty easily, so the bonus should probably be either based on what you know (which is as good as how many you readied at the beginning and then changed to what you want) or how many you have readied (including expended and withheld) at the moment.

Dual Stance should clarify that the maneuvers need to be from different disciplines. It says it with the "from another discipline" part, but it's easy to miss.

[/spoiler]

Ruby Knight Vindicator
[spoiler]
I just want to mention that Divine Impetus is so much better than the Swordsage's 20th level ability, Dual Boost.

I always figured that spending multiple uses of turning for Divine Fury was the equivalent of spending higher level spell slots on the JPM's Arcane Wrath.

[/spoiler]

Shadow Sun Ninja
[spoiler]
If you don't have Stunning Fist, you don't gain uses of it for your Monk levels. I don't see how SSN changes that. Similarly, I don't see why SSN should let you take Stunning fist without meeting its prerequisites.

[/spoiler]
A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
[/spoiler]

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #105 on: August 01, 2011, 12:54:53 AM »
After a month's break, I have updated the consensus (why am I calling it that? Hardly anyone is providing input here). Moving on, there are three chapters left: The Nine Swords, Magic Items, and Nine Swords Monsters. Should we really even bother with that last chapter? WotC's creatures are notorious for being screwed up.

All of the Legacy Items: The maneuvers they grant are different from the ones granted by the Martial Study feat, since they can be used repeatedly each encounter. Should this be mentioned?

Desert Wind
[spoiler]Fiery Blade allows the wielder to initiate the Burning Blade maneuver as an Immediate action, but makes no mention of if that is through itself or through the wielder's readied maneuvers. Basically, should it allow you to do so only if you have the maneuver readied, or should it be in addition to your normal readied maneuvers?[/spoiler]

Faithful Avenger
[spoiler]Should there be some additional stipulations on the third ritual?

The 10th level ability seems to be a mistake. Perhaps replace it with Dispel Evil/Good?

Boundless Determination does nothing for non-Crusaders who know the Immortal Fortitude stance (not that this really matters).

Resiliency is stupidly worded, and needs revising. How the fuck did that leave the editing room unchecked?[/spoiler]

Supernal Clarity
[spoiler]I feel the duration needs to be mentioned for the Haste effect.

The Uncanny Dodge should upgrade as normal if you all ready had it.[/spoiler]

Kamate
[spoiler]I cannot find anything wrong with it (other than the obvious optimization problems).[/spoiler]

Eventide's Edge
[spoiler]This is the only one of the items that requires maneuvers known. Should this be removed, seeing a the Legacy Items were meant to be a way to introduce the Bo9S to a new party?

The AC bonus is not only redundant, it is inferior to the Swordsage's class feature since it is lost if armor is worn. I feel it needs to be clarified, since it mentions stacking.[/spoiler]

Umbral Awn
[spoiler]Shadowstep needs to mention something about equipment.[/spoiler]

Unfettered
[spoiler]Should we mess with the capstone ability (ala Boots of Speed) to make it more useful?[/spoiler]

Tiger Fang
[spoiler]Reword the Haste ability so it is easier to read.

Change the Power Critical ability so it just grants the feat as a bonus feat (since that really is all it is).[/spoiler]

Blade of the Last Citadel
[spoiler]I see no problems here.[/spoiler]


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Garryl

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #106 on: August 01, 2011, 11:44:06 AM »
The simplest thing with Umbral Awn's Shadowstep is to reference a similar effect, such as One with Shadow.

Edit: Also, not necessarily a problem, just an inconsistency. Desert Wind (being a modified reprint of the version found in Weapons of Legacy) is the only weapon that requires Weapon Focus instead of just proficiency.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 11:59:58 AM by Garryl »
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[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
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[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #107 on: August 01, 2011, 03:26:59 PM »
Haven't been watching this thread lately, been busy since I spend most of my time on the go during the summer, but I did catch this.
Well then the errata for White Raven Tactics should include this tag line:  "This maneuver does not work more than once per round."

Agreed.

FYI, Sin's 44 uses per round example is misleading.
Quote from: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20060830a
Q: Can you know the same maneuvers (from Tome of Battle) more than once? Can you ready the same maneuver more than once at a time?
A: Actually no, you cannot learn the same maneuvers more than once, nor can you ready the same maneuver more than once at a time.
Without one turn recovery, such as Adaptive Style or Crusader, you cannot WRT multiple times even if you start talking about custom items.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #108 on: August 01, 2011, 03:30:47 PM »
FYI, Sin's 44 uses per round example is misleading.
Quote from: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20060830a
Q: Can you know the same maneuvers (from Tome of Battle) more than once? Can you ready the same maneuver more than once at a time?
A: Actually no, you cannot learn the same maneuvers more than once, nor can you ready the same maneuver more than once at a time.
Without one turn recovery, such as Adaptive Style or Crusader, you cannot WRT multiple times even if you start talking about custom items.

Its still better than the Belt since its usable each encounter instead of 1/day. That's something that really needs to be avoided.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #109 on: August 01, 2011, 03:36:36 PM »
Numerous Tiger Claw maneuvers - Clarify whether or not the DC of the Jump check doubles if you don't move at least 20 feet first.

As I noted above, this is something that has been bugging me. I almost instinctively avoid those maneuvers (except Sudden Leap) because I don't know how to rule them.

I'm thinking that requiring the 20ft would nerf those maneuvers down pretty hard until you get Leaping Dragon, and that requiring a specific stance to use those maneuvers is unnecessarily harsh towards the players. On the other hand, removing the 20ft requirement diminishes the value of the Leaping Dragon stance.
Simple, it didn't override Jump's rules. Double the DC if you didn't move. What is diminished here given it never worked the other way? It's like ignoring the 2/3s BAB progression of the Psychic Fighter all because you simply wanted 1:1 progression.

At level 1 you can easily have 4 ranks & +4 Strength which comes out at a 40% chance for a swift action 5ft. step if used alone, or a reliable bonus of +10ft. to speed for one round which is pretty balanced towards things like Fast Movement & Monk's Speed I'd think and the maneuver scales slow enough not to become your primary method of movement later on.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #110 on: August 01, 2011, 03:45:38 PM »
FYI, Sin's 44 uses per round example is misleading.
Quote from: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20060830a
Q: Can you know the same maneuvers (from Tome of Battle) more than once? Can you ready the same maneuver more than once at a time?
A: Actually no, you cannot learn the same maneuvers more than once, nor can you ready the same maneuver more than once at a time.
Without one turn recovery, such as Adaptive Style or Crusader, you cannot WRT multiple times even if you start talking about custom items.

Its still better than the Belt since its usable each encounter instead of 1/day. That's something that really needs to be avoided.
I didn't cover that, but I can: Except you are forgetting the Belt of Battle can readily be used by anyone of any class. Whereas a Maneuver Granting items still check prerequisites meaning you cannot use a Crown of white Raven to obtain WRT unless you are level 10 and already have a White Raven Maneuver from a class dip or Feat. Unless you get into custom made items and merging two Crowns together to grant two White Raven Maneuvers at once (as you can't wear two hats).

In which case I would like to remind you those are the DM's rules, not the Players, and those very guidelines explicitly call out paying attention to the problems that can arise from misusing them. It isn't this thread's job to take into account items such as those. Simply because we would be bogged down pretending to be DMs and trying to handle problems like 24/7 True Strike, Wraithful Strike, and anything else that would be flat out bat-poo insane if you just made up custom items.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Risada

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #111 on: August 01, 2011, 03:59:41 PM »
I would like to point out a small problem I faced sometime ago: I had a hobgoblin warblade use Charging Minotaur against the party's Crusader, using Thicket of Blades. Thicket of Blades states that all movement in your threatened area provoke AoOs, but Charging Minotaur (and other charge maneuvers) do not provoke AoOs when moving.

Should Thicket of Blades trigger on this situation? I ruled no at the time, but I want to know what you guys think about this.

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #112 on: August 02, 2011, 01:07:03 AM »
The 9th level manuever for Stone Dragon has no pre-reqs of other manuevers known, unlike basically every other high level manuever.
Don't Stone Dragon maneuvers have low prereqs in general?

I always got the impression that Stone Dragon was the easiest of the styles to "master", seeing as any true martial adept can master it.

All maneuvers have prerequisite initiator levels regardless, so the point is kinda moot.
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #113 on: August 02, 2011, 01:15:44 AM »
Simple, it didn't override Jump's rules. Double the DC if you didn't move. What is diminished here given it never worked the other way? It's like ignoring the 2/3s BAB progression of the Psychic Fighter all because you simply wanted 1:1 progression.

At level 1 you can easily have 4 ranks & +4 Strength which comes out at a 40% chance for a swift action 5ft. step if used alone, or a reliable bonus of +10ft. to speed for one round which is pretty balanced towards things like Fast Movement & Monk's Speed I'd think and the maneuver scales slow enough not to become your primary method of movement later on.

These maneuvers are the only ones with that big of a failure chance. None of the Diamond Mind maneuvers have this problem, and the same goes for the other handful of maneuvers that use skill checks. Whats more, some of these maneuvers do not involve movement at all, and require the Jump check to gain a specific bonus. Why should those maneuvers have their DCs increased?

Secondly, those modifiers are exclusive for the Long and High Jump checks. Quote:

Quote
All Jump DCs given here assume that you get a running start

None of the maneuvers mention this, nor is there a note in the Discipline's opening lines like there is for Stone Dragon.

Finally, consider the fact that with the exception of Sudden Leap, the DCs are based on the Armor Class of the target, not the distance you move. I, for one, feel that this separates these maneuvers from the normal Jump rules.

I didn't cover that, but I can: Except you are forgetting the Belt of Battle can readily be used by anyone of any class. Whereas a Maneuver Granting items still check prerequisites meaning you cannot use a Crown of white Raven to obtain WRT unless you are level 10 and already have a White Raven Maneuver from a class dip or Feat. Unless you get into custom made items and merging two Crowns together to grant two White Raven Maneuvers at once (as you can't wear two hats).

In which case I would like to remind you those are the DM's rules, not the Players, and those very guidelines explicitly call out paying attention to the problems that can arise from misusing them. It isn't this thread's job to take into account items such as those. Simply because we would be bogged down pretending to be DMs and trying to handle problems like 24/7 True Strike, Wraithful Strike, and anything else that would be flat out bat-poo insane if you just made up custom items.

I missed the whole "must meet the requirements" part. That weakens it a bit, but it is still incredibly more cost-efficient than a Belt of Battle. And I really do not want to leave that part to Oberoni. Yes, the DM can just house rule it or deny the item altogether, but this is meant to be an Errata, and is supposed to remove the need to house rule those out. I am very much aware that this thread is just a bunch of house rules compiled into a list that resembles official errata, but why not nip the problem in the bud so more people will be inclined to use this?


[spoiler][/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #114 on: August 02, 2011, 03:40:39 PM »
These maneuvers are the only ones with that big of a failure chance.
Umm... You do know most Setting Sun strikes are dependent on you succeeding with a Trip check right? Also, I could be wrong on this but a lot of people bash the Monk because he totally requires Wisdom for that worthless AC stat, a Shadow Hand user uses that worthless combat ability for his Save DCs so something on his end is going to be a big heap of failure. Thank Pelor none of the Devoted Spirit stuff doesn't have those problems, I mean it works 100% of the time and doesn't check some arbitrary alignment thing right? The only other one I can think of is Stone Dragon being worthless if you are in the air, but you are fixing that, just like you want to fix Tiger Claw ^_^

<snip>unreasonable validation and BS here</snip> Finally, consider the fact that with the exception of Sudden Leap, the DCs are based on the Armor Class of the target, not the distance you move. I, for one, feel that this separates these maneuvers from the normal Jump rules.
When something states it is the DC of your check, then it is the DC of the check (duh). But Feral Death Blow says the DC is your opponent's AC while Sudden Leap says the distance you can move is based on your Jump check (aka see Jump skill for distance covered by your check) and there is such a huge difference there you may as well be comparing it with grapple checks.

And I really do not want to leave that part to Oberoni.
The problem was already nipped with the once per encounter limit which isn't what I spoke of, merely that you in fact CANNOT gain 43 maneuvers in a row with made up custom items... Oh wait you can, see below! Anyway, and things have turned to a Belt of Battle vs Custom White Raven Crown.

Well really. I use a Candle of Invocation, enchant thine cloth with Armor Bonuses rather than buy Bracers of Armor, said bite me to Ghost Touch and own a True Death Crystal, picked up a Wand of Celerity (only 420gp per use!) which I later sold off and simply paid 50,400gp for an unlimited Celerity item to gain two Standard Actions per round of every round. Man I am saving gold and totally under cutting various items. Not to mention my custom item is amazing, my super item that gives like 400 uses a day when I'm bored and if I went BoB I couldn't afford a third one off that kind of budget.

You'll probably want a subforum on it's own just to handle what you can craft and not, and why you should banhammerz items printed in books for being better than other items that are used to the same affect. I wish you good luck.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

zugschef

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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #115 on: August 02, 2011, 05:02:07 PM »
skill checks versus ac is awkward anyhow: it's a totally broken mechanic (as is skill check versus save dc). that's why i personally never use these maneuvers.

Kuroimaken

  • Organ Grinder
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Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #116 on: August 02, 2011, 07:37:59 PM »
skill checks versus ac is awkward anyhow: it's a totally broken mechanic (as is skill check versus save dc). that's why i personally never use these maneuvers.

...


...no, really, that's all you get.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Bozwevial

  • Organ Grinder
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  • Developing a relaxed attitude to danger.
Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #117 on: August 02, 2011, 07:51:23 PM »
skill checks versus ac is awkward anyhow: it's a totally broken mechanic (as is skill check versus save dc). that's why i personally never use these maneuvers.
Why is that broken? Past a certain point literally all that will do is remove the chance of failing on a one. Nice to have, but not fantastic.

Kuroimaken

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 6733
Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #118 on: August 02, 2011, 07:52:40 PM »
skill checks versus ac is awkward anyhow: it's a totally broken mechanic (as is skill check versus save dc). that's why i personally never use these maneuvers.
Why is that broken? Past a certain point literally all that will do is remove the chance of failing on a one. Nice to have, but not fantastic.

Skill checks do not autofail on nat ones.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


zugschef

  • Curious George
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  • Posts: 331
Re: Tome of Battle
« Reply #119 on: August 02, 2011, 07:58:26 PM »
i guess you two misunderstand me. i am not talking about gamebreaking.

i say it is a broken mechanic because skills, ac and saves scale totally different. it's like making a skill check versus caster level check, that would be equally wrong. the special use of the ride skill with mounted combat, btw, falls under this category, too: skill check versus attack roll.