GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated

[Nebuchadnezzar]

It seems like Legends and Lore priests should use the specialty priest XP charts from Faiths and Avatars, curtailing this sort of build. That said, Math Mathonwy (urge to dig out my Mabinogion rising) is by far the best choice. The only other ones that at all compare are Isis (multi cleric/wizard, auto passing all magic saves), O-Kuni-Nushi (cast from one wizard school, due to lack of phrasing 'as priest spells of same level' can be interpreted as seperate progression), Aegir (fighter that happens to cast as a priest from the sphere of weather), and Fu Hsing (casts as bard in addition to cleric), as well as a couple of the ones that get high hide in shadows/move silently.

Most of the kits don't seem worth it, save maybe Shapeshifter Druid.

[Caelic]

How do you get immortality in the PHB?

Read the text of Energy Drain--if you're reduced to 0 Con, you become a Shade.  Shades don't age.

Because if you can, and you have access to Druid, Cleric, and Wizard spells, what's stopping you from making an army of Simularcrums of yourself? At your level, they should be functioning as Druid 5/Cleric 5 up to Druid 10/Cleric 12 if I'm reading the dual class level loss rules right. Surely all the 6th level Cleric spells you could want is good for something?

Have done.  Druid 5/Cleric 12, with magic-user spells as a Wizard 7.  Not an ARMY, per se, but I have a staff of them manning my sanctum, yes.

Wizard of Nimbral? I just have to ask.

Take an illusionist.  Give him back his banned schools.  Add in bonus spells based on Intelligence.  Lightly season with permanent infravision, Detect Magic, and Detect Invisibility.  That's a Wizard of Nimbral.

Now, they DO have some drawbacks--d3 HP, no Con bonus, no weapon proficiencies, and a nasty tendency to be stricken blind in areas of anti-magic--but most of those can be circumvented by dual-classing.  (Now, the flavor text at least somewhat implies that Wizards of Nimbral are trained from childhood...but it never comes out and states it, and this IS raw rules-lawyery powergaming...)

[Caelic]

It seems like Legends and Lore priests should use the specialty priest XP charts from Faiths and Avatars, curtailing this sort of build.

Well, to be honest, I don't think ANY specialty priests should use the XP chart from Faiths and Avatars.  Basing it on the Druid charts was just foolish; there's a REASON Druids have the bizarre fast-then-glacially-slow-then-fast-again-then-slow-again XP progression, and it doesn't apply to other specialty priests.  I'm not getting the Grand Druid's 6-spells-per-level, I-rule-the-whole-world goodness, so why in the world should it cost me 1,500,000 experience points to go from 14th to 15th level?

That said, my case for NOT using those rules is as follows:

1. Faiths and Avatars is a Forgotten Realms specific supplement.
2. Faiths and Avatars does NOT say that those progressions apply universally to specialty priests in all settings.
3. It's not reasonable to publish rules in a setting-specific supplement (and nowhere else) that are meant to apply universally to all settings.
4. Legends and Lore makes no mention of special experience tables for the priests described there.  Nor do any of the other sources I'm employing in crafting my character.
5. Legends and Lore came out LONG before Faiths and Avatars; clearly, Legends and Lore was NOT designed with those rules in mind.
6. Moreover, a case that the F&A rules DO apply would require a massive retconning of existing characters at the time of release.  (Should a level 20 L&L cleric suddenly drop to level 14?)
7. The priests of Math Mathonwy are specifically described as "clerics or druids"--thus, by the letter of the rules, they should use the cleric or druid table, depending on which they are.  Mine's a cleric.

Have I missed anything?  I think it's a fairly strong defense.


Yes, if the DMs decree that the F&A chart applies to all specialty priests, I'm hosed and will need to go back to the drawing board.  I've sent them my character rough draft, so hopefully they'll get back to me.

That said, Math Mathonwy (urge to dig out my Mabinogion rising) is by far the best choice. The only other ones that at all compare are Isis (multi cleric/wizard, auto passing all magic saves), O-Kuni-Nushi (cast from one wizard school, due to lack of phrasing 'as priest spells of same level' can be interpreted as seperate progression), Aegir (fighter that happens to cast as a priest from the sphere of weather), and Fu Hsing (casts as bard in addition to cleric), as well as a couple of the ones that get high hide in shadows/move silently.

The problem with Fu Hsing is the SEVERELY limited spheres.  The bard spells are nice, and I love the "Cast any spell by playing a single note on a musical instrument" thing...but he just lacks raw spellcasting "oomph."  I thought about Isis for the reasons you mention (and the magic resistance, which my current build lacks,) but anything that doesn't hit ninth level spells just isn't going to pass muster, I think.

I'd add Horus and Anhur to your list.  (Priests of Horus are paladins who cast as priests from the spheres of all, combat, and sun, with minor access to guardian, healing, necromantic, and protection; priests of Anhur have the same spheres, plus many of the goodies of a fighter.)

[The_Mad_Linguist]

My advice: abuse the hell out of rerolls and potion miscibility rules.

Translation : Enjoy that sheet full of 25's.

Also, Bladesinger kit ftw.

IIRC, you can get the effect to be permanent with 200% effectiveness if you roll 00.

Which means that mixed potions are the best way to buff if you have cash and can avoid the instant death.

[Caelic]

'Nother interesting oddity:

Armor of missile attraction is specifically worth no experience points, no matter HOW good it is.  You roll for the type and bonus normally, but:

1. You're three times more likely to be randomly targeted by missile weapons.
2. The magical bonus of the armor doesn't count against missiles.

Now: the first one doesn't strike me as THAT big a deal; how often does purely random missile fire come up?  Most DMs I know prefer to target opponents intelligently.  As for the second, yes, it sucks that my full plate +5 and shield +5 won't grant their magical bonuses versus missiles--but they'll still be every bit as good as the NORMAL full plate and shield I would otherwise have with 0 XP expenditure.