Author Topic: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated  (Read 5810 times)

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Caelic

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GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« on: May 03, 2011, 06:40:28 PM »
Got my events for Gen Con, and one of them is the AD&D second edition High-Level Allnighter.  Well, I hope it is, anyway; I have to make it through the qualifying round first.

The parameters are as follows:

1. 3.75 million xp
2. 87 point stat distribution
3. 3,000 xp worth of magic items
4. Banned books include: Psionics, Skills & Powers, Player Options, Combat Tactics & Dark Sun


So the question is: what to do?

The 3,000xp worth of magic items is sort of unexpected, since that means (barring abuses like "Thor's Hammer doesn't have an XP value!") that these are going to be extremely high-level characters with almost no magic items.  I asked about items which have no listed XP value (like, for instance, the Deck of Many Things) and was told that some of them do have an XP value in later publications, but otherwise, they'd be kosher.

I'm at a serious disadvantage, in that I don't have the Encyclopedia Magica or the Spell Compendiums--I'll just have to work with what I have and hope it's enough.

Here are my initial thoughts:

The baseline of power is going to be Wizard 20; 3.75 million is exactly enough to reach that level as a wizard, and nothing else really compares to ninth level spells in a game where cleric spells stop at 7th level.

Therefore, the question becomes: how much can I gain above the baseline, while sacrificing as little wizard spellcasting as possible?

My initial thought was to create a beefed-up version of an old second edition character of mine: a Human Shade Fighter 9/Wizard of Nimbral 19 who wears a cloak that ensures he's always in shadow (and thus always gets the stat bonuses, magic resistance, and other nifty benefits of a shade.)  However, the background information released thus far makes me think I might be mistaken for one of the enemy and killed right off the bat by the other players.


My tentative build at the moment is as follows:

Human dual-classed Druid 10/Priest of Math Mathonwy 24

STR: 7
INT: 19
WIS: 19 (20)
DEX: 11
CON: 16
CHA: 15

Tentative Magic Items: Pale Green Ioun Stone (+1 level of experience,) Pearl of Wisdom, Ring of Spell Turning


In a lot of ways, priests of Math Mathonwy aren't so hot.  No Turn Undead, no armor, and the only weapon they can wield is the dagger.  They get access to most spheres, but they're restricted to minor access in Healing and Divination, which hurts.

However, they get one very important ability: they cast wizard spells as a wizard 5 levels lower than their priest level.

The way I look at it, I'm not BUILDING a priest character; I'm building a wizard who gives up one level of wizard spellcasting for 10 levels of Druid spellcasting, 24 levels of clerical spellcasting, and better attack and hit point progressions.

However, I have some significant concerns.  The character is an EXTREME case of "Armor Class is meaningless"--there is NO way I can get his AC down to a meaningful level, so I'm not even trying.  He's going to be running around with an AC of 6, and relying on damage mitigation and getting away from attackers for survival.

What I need to do here is figure out ways I can better my chances of survival without going utterly cheesy. 

Garryl

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2011, 08:05:47 PM »
How does functional immunity to damage sound? Lifeproof is a 7th level Wizard spell in the Al-Qadim: Arabian Adventures book. Rather than dying from negative HP, you just suffer a -1 penalty to Charisma for every 10 points below 0. Also, your severed limbs can function independently and even be reattached, much like a troll. You're still vulnerable to other forms of death and pseudo-death, and if your Shadow of the Heart (a gem-like thing with AC 10 and 10 hp) is destroyed, you die instantly the way you don't come back. You don't need to be near it after the casting, though, so feel free to lock is up in whatever impenetrable vault your spells can make. Plus, the spell's aura is on your Shadow Heart, so you shouldn't need to worry about any errant Dispel Magics.

Edit: Not quite as undispellable as I thought. The aura is on your heart, which is still in your body, not your Shadow of the Heart.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 08:20:22 PM by Garryl »
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Caelic

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2011, 08:42:51 PM »
It sounds interesting, and my character background would justify having it.  (I mildly torqued off my deity, who Geased me to wander constantly seeking out new magic for his increased glory and power, forcing me to travel to other planes to look for esoteric magics.)

Now, the problem is that I don't HAVE that book, or any other Al-Qadim book. 

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2011, 08:44:27 PM »
"Shade" ... huh, I spotted something similar ... once upon a time.
I was totally Magic Tea Party, during that epoch.
So I don't recall what I did with it.



So long as someone else has access to the 2e Psionics book,
you can probably gain a small pile of Wild Talent abilities,
with no more penalty than perhaps a bad dice roll Int or Wis -2 (or so).
Still hazy on the details, but it's kinda a production line type thing.

Caelic

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2011, 08:46:28 PM »

So long as someone else has access to the 2e Psionics book,
you can probably gain a small pile of Wild Talent abilities,
with no more penalty than perhaps a bad dice roll Int or Wis -2 (or so).
Still hazy on the details, but it's kinda a production line type thing.


It's not "I don't have access to it."  It's "The book is banned."  I have the book.

I have to say they probably picked the right books to ban.  No dual-classed archer/artificer with a quiverful of temporary Arrows of Slaying...curses. ;)


awaken DM golem

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2011, 08:53:25 PM »
(drat)

Oh well ... for that other competition,
just check the MetaPsi sciences section.
One of the powers is loop material.



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Garryl

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2011, 09:48:27 PM »
Well, if the book is allowed, it's Al-Qadim: Arabian Adventures, by Jeff Grubb. The spell (Lifeproof) is on page 143. If anyone else has the book, you can probably get it from them. If you want, I can quote the exact text for you.

By the way, where's Priest of Math Mathonwy from? My 2E collection is rather limited. I didn't even know there were so many AD&D splatbooks until a couple of years ago.
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Ed-Zero

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2011, 10:42:01 PM »
You might be able to get some information from the ad&d post I made here a while back. Granted, its mostly about archers but it does have some handy info

Caelic

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2011, 10:42:27 PM »
By the way, where's Priest of Math Mathonwy from? My 2E collection is rather limited. I didn't even know there were so many AD&D splatbooks until a couple of years ago.


Heh.  The funny thing is how many people don't know...and it's right out of Legends and Lore.  People have a tendency to overlook the early stuff.  Some of the specific priests in there have RIDICULOUSLY good abilities--like the priests of Horus, who are paladins but are Chaotic Good and have spell progression as clerics.  :)

Caelic

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2011, 06:07:33 PM »
Okay.  So:

Pierce Any Shield plus Lightning Ring plus one sapphire:

384 points of damage that ignores any and all defenses (including anti-magic) except the saving throw for half damage.

Yeah.  That works.

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2011, 06:29:31 PM »
What spells would you be guaranteed as a Mage ("Wizard")?  Doing whatever you can outside of combat seems worth it, considering how frail 2E Mages were.
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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2011, 06:53:52 PM »
Sweet combo.


I used the 1e Gems section, in a lesser fashion, even if totally houserule based.
3e's got the UA list, that functions as metamagic. Boring.

So the 2e version of this has actual interesting things happening.

Caelic

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2011, 07:06:07 PM »
What spells would you be guaranteed as a Mage ("Wizard")?  Doing whatever you can outside of combat seems worth it, considering how frail 2E Mages were.


At the moment, my list of ongoing spells is up to two and a half pages.  I've got Ironguard up and running perpetually (renders me pretty much immune to metal weapons.)  I've got a number of Persistent spells up and running (found a workaround for the material component cost on Persistence.)  Naturally, I have Stoneskin, Contingency, and Chain Contingency.

My main concerns at the moment are MD and anti-magic zones.  I have an answer for MD, but I'm just not going to be very useful in an anti-magic area.

Widow

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2011, 12:29:33 AM »
I was always a fan of the deep gnomes that get their natural AC to -6 before dex modes kick in.  Although they are best suited for the cleric/fighter multiclass.  There are magical pigments some place that were always fun to make class N poison with.  Goes great with their racial dart throwing ability.

Caelic

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2011, 12:48:17 AM »
I was always a fan of the deep gnomes that get their natural AC to -6 before dex modes kick in.  Although they are best suited for the cleric/fighter multiclass.  There are magical pigments some place that were always fun to make class N poison with.  Goes great with their racial dart throwing ability.


Keep in mind, though, that this is up at 3.75 million experience points--dual classing's where the power is.  Particularly since the Player's Option rules aren't in effect, and therefore weapon specialization is restricted to single classed warriors.  (Not that that matters to my build; I thought about a prefix of fighter, but felt like the abilities I'd get from 10 levels of Druid outweighed it.)

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2011, 03:13:24 AM »
My advice: abuse the hell out of rerolls and potion miscibility rules.
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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2011, 10:24:39 AM »
My advice: abuse the hell out of rerolls and potion miscibility rules.

Translation : Enjoy that sheet full of 25's.

Also, Bladesinger kit ftw.
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Caelic

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2011, 06:37:12 PM »
My advice: abuse the hell out of rerolls and potion miscibility rules.

Translation : Enjoy that sheet full of 25's.

Also, Bladesinger kit ftw.


Don't need potion miscibility to do that; once you're immortal, there's really nothing to stop you from boosting your stats to 25's with Wishes, and it's possible to achieve immortality with nothing but the PHB. :)

Bladesinger requires an elf; no matter how tasty the kit is, multiclassing just can't compete with dual classing for raw power at this level.

(Besides, if I wanted a KIT, I'd be going with Wizard of Nimbral! :)

Garryl

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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2011, 06:51:19 PM »
How do you get immortality in the PHB? Because if you can, and you have access to Druid, Cleric, and Wizard spells, what's stopping you from making an army of Simularcrums of yourself? At your level, they should be functioning as Druid 5/Cleric 5 up to Druid 10/Cleric 12 if I'm reading the dual class level loss rules right. Surely all the 6th level Cleric spells you could want is good for something?

Wizard of Nimbral? I just have to ask.
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Re: GenCon 2nd Edition Optimization--Advice Appreciated
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2011, 07:23:51 PM »
OK ... now I've gotta go get my 2e PHB out of storage.




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