Author Topic: Optimizing a Secret Chest  (Read 6765 times)

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Optimizing a Secret Chest
« on: April 28, 2011, 06:55:59 PM »
Well, you all know the spell, and I consider using it for a wizard of mine in Paizos Rise of the Runelords campaign.

While I do not like the fact that the chest, containing my most valuable possessions, will just be laying around in the ethereal plane for anyone to tamper with, I remain confident that I can the chest can be secured quite well with a decent amount of optimization. The spell dictates that the hest must "be exceptionally well crafted and expensive, constructed for you by master crafters", and hat it may cost no less than 5000 GP for the spell to function. Non-optimizers will buy a gold adorned, gem encrusted blinged out piece of shit chest made from exotic and expensive wood, but I see the price as an invitation to make the chest virtually impenetrable.

In short, the purpose of this exercise is to make a 3x2x2 ft. chest as secure as possible, even when it is left unattended on the ethereal plane, for the price of 5000 GPs.

My initial thoughts:

1) Fitting the chest with two amazing locks will render it quite hard to open for most creatures in a standard D&D world, and it wont break the 5000 GP budget. One key will be carried by my character, and the other by my familiar.

2) A 3x2x2 box can potentially be very heavy, and if I can make it heavy enough I can perhaps deter most wizards and ethereal critters from picking it up and wander off with it (NetHack style :-P). Lead seems to be an optimal building material here, as it will double as a divination firewall, and I suppose that I can remedy the metals inherit softness by covering the chests surfaces with permanencied walls of force.

3) Fire Traps are virtually free, and while they wont actually do anything to creatures powerful enough to get to the chest in the first place, I might as well cover it in them... Just for fun.

4) If the chest is ever lost, I need a way of locating and/or retrieving it, no matter which plane it ends up on. I need a suggestion here though.

5) Non-living minions can be placed inside the chest, and attack any thieves or saboteurs who open it. My character is LN, so creating some intelligent undead to help protect the chest is not out of the question. Shadows in peculiar would be a nasty surprise for anyone, espicially casters, who are the most likely culprits to get to the chest in the first place. I just have to keep them out of sight of the party paladin.

6) My last idea is a little meta-gamey, but I hope to protect the chest with plot armor, by placing important plot-related objects inside it at any given chance.

Anything else that can be done to protect the chest?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 07:06:09 PM by E-mail »

CrimsonDeath

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2011, 10:00:24 PM »
Note that the 5000gp price tag is a floor-- you can go higher.

Riverine (special material from Stormwrack 128) is water contained within a force effect.  It is completely impervious to damage and can only be destroyed by a Rod of Cancellation, a Sphere of Annihilation, Disintegrate, or MDJ.  It costs 2000gp/lb for items other than armor.  You can still coat the thing with lead.

Adamantine is another good option for a building material.

You may want to put an Arcane Lock on it too.

Gavinfoxx

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2011, 10:17:47 PM »
Use Improved Arcane Lock.

Also, making it out of adamantine or obdurium, or at the very least, something with hardness equal to 20 or above! (Iron with some hardening spells and whatnot on it, for example).
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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2011, 10:31:32 PM »
Hmm... Adamantine has the unique advantage of also working inside an AMF, I didn't think of that before now. Will riverine do that too? And what is obdurium?

(Improved) Arcane Lock is probably a very good idea too, I will definately go for that one as well.

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2011, 10:43:21 PM »
Hmm... Adamantine has the unique advantage of also working inside an AMF, I didn't think of that before now. Will riverine do that too? And what is obdurium?

(Improved) Arcane Lock is probably a very good idea too, I will definately go for that one as well.

Well, there are a LARGE number of ways to increase hardness, many of which would still work in an AMF.  There's a few arcane spells, a psionic power, etc.  If you calculate that the volume of Adamantine alone would put you above budget, which is possible, than you're going to need to find some way to harden a cheaper material...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/spells/hardening.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/matterManipulation.htm

There's dwarvencrafting the thing, and also I think some Artificer tricks, and maybe some things from elsewhere too...

I would say you want something immune to...

Shatter (works on crystalline materials)
Warp Wood (works on plant based materials, even iron strength wood)
Warp Metal (works on metal materials)
Stone Shape (works on stone materials)
Flesh to salt (works on animal based materials, like chitin)
Disintegrate (works on wall of force based things. and other things, of course...)

I think that Glassteel is at least resistant to all of the above? That stuff is expensive, though!  Also, lead-line the thing... maybe make a composite, so they cant use ONE of these spells to get past your chest?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 01:39:27 AM by Gavinfoxx »
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Cagemarrow

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2011, 10:45:53 PM »
You make it a pack mate, give it a chameleon ring and tell it to hide too. Don't forget the inner lining with a permanent shrink item spell in the rim so that anything put in it gets shrunk and turned to cloth. Heck since it's not a bag of holding consider a hidden drawer that pulls out of the bottom with one of the kobold pit trap portable holes, hah I can't remember the name, to give it a 50 ft depth in the drawer.

CrimsonDeath

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2011, 11:20:55 PM »
Hmm... Adamantine has the unique advantage of also working inside an AMF, I didn't think of that before now. Will riverine do that too?
It doesn't explicitly say, but it functions in many ways as a Wall of Force (like what it blocks and what destroys it), so probably.

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2011, 02:15:07 AM »
obdurium also works in amf and has a higher hardness than adamantine. i'd suggest using elemental binding to link an air elemental with it with the instructions to not let anything catch it.
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Cagemarrow

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2011, 12:01:34 PM »
Don't forget to clarify that with an except me clause. Otherwise you'll never get it back either.

Gavinfoxx

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2011, 04:39:02 PM »
Uhm, I'm pretty sure that IRON, with the hardening spells / abilities / powers / etc., works just fine in an AMF...
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Dawnmor

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2011, 07:40:07 PM »
You could make the chest Intelligent :).  Give it Telepathy out to 100ft.

Perhaps have a Ring?, bond it to the chest and either use RECALL to recall the chest to you or you to the chest?.


nijineko

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2011, 08:54:16 PM »
add mindsight to that telepathy idea. ^^
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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2011, 10:41:57 PM »
Make it out of Riverine (which makes it nigh indestructible) with an inner lining of layered adamantine and obdurium, with an outer coating of lead paint. Then cast Permanencied Explosive Runes ALL OVER IT (as in, dozens and dozens), then cast a Permanencied Shrink Item on it before sending it off. This is in addition to everything else you might think of doing.

That way, anything that looks for it will have trouble divining for it due to the lead, won't be able to see it if they stumble across it due to it being the size of a speck of dust, and if they do, they have to deal with dozens of force explosions. They won't be able to break it since it's Riverine, and if they Disintegrate it or whatever they still need to deal with the layers of adamantine and/or obdurium.
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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2011, 12:32:31 AM »
6) My last idea is a little meta-gamey, but I hope to protect the chest with plot armor, by placing important plot-related objects inside it at any given chance.

Not an optimization thing, really, but be careful with this idea, it can backfire badly. What happens when you stick an object into the chest that the DM needs to steal for story reasons? Best case scenario: you get robbed. Worst case scenario: You get robbed and then argue with the DM over how he managed to rob you and the entire table breaks into rules-lawyering-based recriminations that destroy the group. So... yeah.

Also, note that you don't just leave it on the ethereal plane, you hide it on the ethereal plane. It wouldn't be impossible to get to use some sort of skill check to improve the base, mundane hiddenness of the thing. You know, perhaps a spellcraft check to determine how little you effect the flow and eddies of ethereal matter, or an knowledge (planes) check to ensure that you stick it somewhere incredibly out of the way on the ethereal plane, or maybe just an ordinary hide check to hide the darn thing. If you can make the case for this, then all the ordinary skill check optimization methods apply.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 12:35:46 AM by genuine »

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2011, 01:18:08 AM »
Oh and if you plan on making this a VAULT of sorts.  I highly suggest you get stoneshape, and make the chest with an Extra dimensional portal for storing items.  The stoneshape is so you can make a Floor vault.  This way you can shape a hole to fit the chest, and then stoneshape again so you can cover it up, so in essence only YOU know where it actually is at all times, Store your valuables :).

ON! top of what Lycan suggested of course :), the best thing when making a chest of this magnitude is to make sure its undetectable, well hidden, and essentially cant be stolen because you have to fit it inside the earth with NO way of detecting it in the first place and only YOU know where it is at all times.

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2011, 02:17:00 AM »
<snip>
4) If the chest is ever lost, I need a way of locating and/or retrieving it, no matter which plane it ends up on. I need a suggestion here though.
<snip>
Instant Summon+Arcane Mark

Might not work if your chest gets into a AMF or a AMZ (do they exist in the Ethereal Plane?)

nijineko

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2011, 02:45:13 AM »
there are storms on the ethereal. even well hidden, it could get chucked a good distance away if a the weather gets bad. unless it's associated with something solid.

wonder what would happen if you activated the spell, and then went to the ethereal, found it, and moved it into a pocket dimension.

or you could take your chest, get one of those magnificent mansion rods (or whatever that item is...) take it in with you, and leave it there when you leave. the place technically doesn't exist until you enter it again, so.... pretty safe, so long as your item isn't stolen.
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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2011, 04:20:39 PM »
There's a power in Hyperconscious called Double Dimension that costs 250 xp to use, but doubles a single inner dimension of a space that isn't already increased by some other form of magic.

Using this power, you could make the inside of your chest a HUGE room that you could then fill with all sorts of stuff, including majorly powerful guardians and magical traps.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

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Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
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nijineko

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2011, 11:55:42 PM »
like deeppockets. or that lurk power, which is basically psionic deeppockets.
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Caelic

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Re: Optimizing a Secret Chest
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2011, 06:43:09 PM »
Well, if it has to be expensive, why not take advantage of that?  Go ahead and SET the sucker with gems--gems which you have already attuned to a Gemjump spell.  That way, when your chest gets stolen, you can travel to the appropriate plane and teleport to it.