Author Topic: Any sufficiently prepared Wizard is indistinguishable from an adventuring party  (Read 18958 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Endarire

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2171
    • Email
Intro
A DM and friend of mine made a 'dungeon,' the Temple of the Fluffy Bunny.  We started but never completed this area with another party.  I was curious how well a Core-only Wizard can solo this place.

Rules
-Wizards are the emphasis.  I know I could get a Druid or Cleric cohort, but that ain't the point.

-Core only!  That's Player's Handbook I, Dungeon Master's Guide I, and Monster Manual I with the latest errata for each.

-I start with enough XP for ECL8 with standard WBL.  My cohort gets standard XP and WBL for ECL6 as if he were a PC.

-The ending ECL is uncertain.

-The max for all skills is the creature's HD + 3.

-No using items to cast spells beyond my level.  (No simulacrum staves until I have 13 HD.)

-Simulacrum is limited to my minions, myself, and creatures I've found in this area.  Creatures gotten via planar binding and gate also count.

-All Undead I make must be from this temple.  No sneaking in a Red Dragon skeleton, even though I could animate one.

Expect These Things in the Temple
-Incorporeal creatures.  I need a Ghost Touch weapon, Force effects, or positive & negative energy to handle them.

-Umber hulks.  My DM loves them.

-Antimagic fields.  An AMF covers at least one floor, but not the first floor.

-Wild surge areas.  The DM has a custom chart for wild surges.

-An underground stone 'dungeon'.  It's very iconic.  Stone and dark places abound!

-Rest time.  I can use rope trick to make safe havens.  I assumedly can rest, prepare spells, and craft items in here.

My Tricks
-I use secret page to learn every Core Wizard spell.  Guardian Naga cast spells from the Cleric list, the Good Domain, and the Law Domain as arcane spells.  Thus, I know these spells of level 4 and below.

-Animate dead + desecrate = job security.

-The Tattoo Focus feat is effectively free.  A Red Wizard7 can give this to anyone he wants, and, hey, he likes us!

-Making custom items will allievate some spell strain.  A shield generator (+4 shield AC) is only 2K crafted.  An item of mage armor at will is only 900 crafted!

Questionable Things
-What items should I get?  I have 40,000G in combined wealth.  With Scribe Scroll, Craft Wondrous, and Craft Magic Arms & Armor, I can effectively double this.  I still need money to buy costly components, especially onyx and

COREY" TN HUMAN DIVINER (No Ench)
Corey's point is to show what a Core-only Wizard can do. 

Circle Magic is off-limits until I can cast level 7 spells (for simulacrum) or I can convince my DM to let my level 1 followers become specialist Wizards with Tattoo Focus.

[spoiler]Base Stats (32 Point Buy, +2 INT from HD)
 8 STR
14 DEX
14 CON
20 INT
10 WIS
10 CHA

DIviner5/Red Wizard10/Archmage5
 1: [Familiar: Rat (+2 Fort) OR Raven (Flying, Speaking Command Word Item User)], Improved Initiative, [Scribe Scroll], Spell Focus: Conjuration, [Tattoo Focus (Divination) - Divinations: +1 DC and +1 to beat SR]
 3: Extend Spell
 5: [Craft Wondrous Item]
 6: [+1 saves vs. Divination], LEADERSHIP!
 7: [+1 CL]
 8: [+1 saves vs. Divination]
 9: [+1 CL], Augment Summoning
10: [CIRCLE MAGIC!], [Quicken Spell]
11: [+1 CL]
12: [+1 saves vs. Divination], [Scribe Tattoo], Spell Focus: Illusion
13: [+1 CL]
14: [+1 saves vs. Divination]
15: [+1 CL], [GREAT CIRCLE LEADER!], Skill Focus: Spellcraft
16: [*HIGH ARCANA*]
17: [SLA: TIME STOP!]
18: [*HIGH ARCANA*], -=FEAT=-
19: [*HIGH ARCANA*]
20: [*HIGH ARCANA*]

*HIGH ARCANAS*
-Arcane Reach
-Mastery of Conjuration
-Spell Power
-SLA: Something I Like
[/spoiler]

"BUDDY" TN HUMAN DIVINER (No Abj OR Ench)[/b][/tt]
Buddy's stats are almost identical to his master's.  Changes are marked in green.
[spoiler]Base Stats (32 Point Buy, +1 INT from HD)
 8 STR
14 DEX
14 CON
19 INT
10 WIS
10 CHA

DIviner5/Red Wizard10/Archmage3
 1: [Familiar: Rat (+2 Fort) OR Raven (Flying, Speaking Command Word Item User)], Improved Initiative, [Scribe Scroll], Spell Focus: Conjuration, [Tattoo Focus (Divination) - Divinations: +1 DC and +1 to beat SR]
 3: Extend Spell
 5: [Craft Magic Arms & Armor]
 6: [+1 saves vs. Divination], Augment Summoning
 7: [+1 CL]
 8: [+1 saves vs. Divination]
 9: [+1 CL], Spell Focus: Illusion
10: [CIRCLE MAGIC!], [Quicken Spell]
11: [+1 CL]
12: [+1 saves vs. Divination], [Scribe Tattoo], -=FEAT=-
13: [+1 CL]
14: [+1 saves vs. Divination]
15: [+1 CL], [GREAT CIRCLE LEADER!], Skill Focus: Spellcraft
16: [*HIGH ARCANA*]
17: [SLA: TIME STOP!]
18: [*HIGH ARCANA*], -=FEAT=-

*HIGH ARCANAS*
-Arcane Reach
-Mastery of Conjuration
-Spell Power
-SLA: Something I Like
[/spoiler]
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Solo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
  • Solo the Sorcelator, at your service
Planar Bind a Nightmare, be Ethereal and skip the AMF dungeon level.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

CrimsonDeath

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
    • Email
-Wild surge areas.  The DM has a custom chart for wild surges.
Just to clarify, do you mean Wild Surge or Wild Magic?  (I'm assuming Wild Magic.  What would Wild Surge even do to a Wizard spell?)

Sir Giacomo

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 259
Planar Bind a Nightmare, be Ethereal and skip the AMF dungeon level.

AMF as an abjuration extends onto the etheral plane... I think.
Apart from that, the starting level seems to be 8, so that bars 5th level spells and higher at the beginning, if I read Endarire's description correctly.

General comments:
- I do not think the secret page trick works since it only enables you to make the text "show" another spell. But this does not give you that spell to prepare spells from (since the secret spell description does not make mention of this).
- a mage armour item crafted for 900gp only works 1/day for 1 hour, not at will.
- where is the guardian naga coming from? (including its 9th level spellcasting ability?)
- How will the wizard(s) survive surprise attacks by, say, shadows or umber hulks? (an idea vs the shadows would be to keep away from walls and get a reach ghost touch or disruption weapon as well as the combat reflexes feat, maybe with the spell storing enhancement and chill touch. About the burrowing Umber Hulks I have no idea yet...)
- somehow I think that taking leadership with a full pc wbl and getting higher wbl via item creations defeats the puprose of trying a solo challenge, but it definitely still sounds like a challenge! :)


- Giacomo

ninjarabbit

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1442
    • Email
Improved familiar (earth elemental) sounds like it would be a good idea, it can use earth glide to be you scout.

I also think your should focus on summons, SM III and IV are the best summon monster spells for their levels and will give you plenty of combat options, especially with your earth elemental scouting for you. Focusing on conjuration will get you plenty of battlefield control spells.

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
When you say prepared, do you mean optimized? Or just stupidly lucky - aka you have the DM notes and know exactly what you will be fighting when. Keep in mind the DM is in his power RAW pervert CoP questions that can't truly be answered in one word similar to wish.

I'd say even heavily optimized low level wizards would come up to a 5% level appropriate (for a party) encounter where it's likely to lose and the reason why will be: "the wizard had no reason to anticipate that challenge."
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

CantripN

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1199
  • Constantly talking isn't necessarily communicating
    • Cantrip, Gestalt Gish
And that's when Uncanny Forethought comes in. You need anticipate nothing! Of course, in Core-only, that's off limits, but it's the single most important feat for a Wizard.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

Saxony

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 742
  • My avatar is from the anime "Pani Poni Dash!".
I love the reference to this quote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." by Arthur C. Clarke.

Side note over.
If I say something about real world physics, and someone disagrees, assume I am right 90% of the time. This number goes up to 100% if I am late night posting - trust me, my star dust sibs.

Solo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
  • Solo the Sorcelator, at your service
Planar Bind a Nightmare, be Ethereal and skip the AMF dungeon level.

AMF as an abjuration extends onto the etheral plane... I think.
Yes, that is why I recommend bypassing it.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 04:14:31 PM by Solo »

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Dead magic zones aren't abjuration magic, so it's a non-issue.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 04:04:51 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3294
  • PAO'd my Avatar
Guardian of the Temple of the Fluffy Bunny



Endarire

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2171
    • Email
Use-activated item of mage armor at will (CL1) has a market value of 1800G.  (1 x 1 x 1800)  If I craft this, the cost is halved.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Use-activated item of mage armor at will (CL1) has a market value of 1800G.  (1 x 1 x 1800)  If I craft this, the cost is halved.
That's not an actual pricing rule though.

If you're going to treat vague guidelines as actual rules, buy a use-activated sword of truestrike.


Now, what *are* actual rules are the prices for magic traps.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Littha

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2155
    • Email
Use-activated item of mage armor at will (CL1) has a market value of 1800G.  (1 x 1 x 1800)  If I craft this, the cost is halved.
That's not an actual pricing rule though.

If you're going to treat vague guidelines as actual rules, buy a use-activated sword of truestrike.


Now, what *are* actual rules are the prices for magic traps.

One of my DMs once let me have a ring of continuous true strike... I didn't ask for it but it was awesome.... also a major artifact.

Solo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
  • Solo the Sorcelator, at your service
Use-activated item of mage armor at will (CL1) has a market value of 1800G.  (1 x 1 x 1800)  If I craft this, the cost is halved.
How much does a continuous item of mage armor cost?

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Mixster

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1642
If bringing your horde of low level followers with you make sure they either don't have to eat, or bring enough food for them so they don't die of hunger. That would be pretty bad.

If binding a nightmare, you could just use astral projection to keep yourself alive at all times.

Custom items are always cheesy, to get free healing make an at-will ring of CLW, Faith Healing or Lesser Vigor. Costs the same as a ring of Mage Armour, but grants so much more mileage. Restrict it to your alignment, race and hair colour.

EDIT: Since Nightmares don't have hands, they technically can't turn you ethereal  ;)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 09:44:32 PM by Mixster »
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

CrimsonDeath

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
    • Email
Use-activated item of mage armor at will (CL1) has a market value of 1800G.  (1 x 1 x 1800)  If I craft this, the cost is halved.
How much does a continuous item of mage armor cost?
16,000gp.  It's called Bracers of Armor +4.

Solo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
  • Solo the Sorcelator, at your service
Yes... that was the point.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

CrimsonDeath

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
    • Email
Sorry, I think the batteries are dead in my sarcasm detector.

Necrosnoop110

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
    • Email
My Tricks
-I use secret page to learn every Core Wizard spell. 
Say what?