Author Topic: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon  (Read 7438 times)

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McPoyo

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2011, 10:49:06 PM »
Artificers get a badass amount of free craft reserve at the beginning, though
Where are they going to use it if there's no place to buy crafting ingredients?  It doesn't help that the crafting rules just say how much the ingredients are worth without telling you anything about what they are...
You use poop, clearly. It's a wand of Stinking cloud made from hardened poop...
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2011, 11:06:38 PM »
Artificers get a badass amount of free craft reserve at the beginning, though
Where are they going to use it if there's no place to buy crafting ingredients?  It doesn't help that the crafting rules just say how much the ingredients are worth without telling you anything about what they are...
So just pick something that costs the right amount and is vaguely sensible. 

Or, IIRC, there's a way to just spend XP instead of GP at a 1 to 5 ratio or so.
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tealjohn

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2011, 02:52:44 PM »
Wildshape to Shapeshift Ranger 4/Warshaper 4/Fist of the Forest 1/Primeval [Fleshraker] 10/Anything 1 [Crusader or Warblade would be my choice]
Feats: Need Great Fortitude, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Power Attack prior to 9. Need Endurance (Get for free via ranger), Self-sufficient, and Improved Toughness before 10. Need either a bonus feat, or a Flaw to do. If you don't dump spells, you can use wands still, and there's enough good 1st level ranger spells to possibly be worth it unless SpC is disallowed for those "OHWHATTHEHELL" emergency moments. Not including Entangle, which likely won't help in WLD due to the plant requirement.

I'm actually playing this one in a PBP at the moment, using a warforged base, and turning into Dinobot.

Oh, and the animal you use for Primeval is largely irrelevant. You can also throw VoP on this and still be pretty handy, you just don't have flight.

Thanks, but I think you're brother plans on being a bitch about special requirements for PrCs like fist of the forest, and he banned ToB classes.
I think I'm trading out my spells for the fast movement/nature's blessing/healing touch/freedom of movement thing
Do the bonuses from Primeval stack with the shapeshift benefits?
& I'm definitely taking VoP, as long as your brother allows it (he said he had to thing about it)

On a side note, please don't murder us all on tuesday, I like that campaign.
STUPID TWOS!!!!

McPoyo

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2011, 03:02:42 PM »
There's no planned murder. If the dice hate you because you guys do something completely retarded...
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

tealjohn

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2011, 03:35:59 PM »
so does the shapeshift from ranger stack with the primeval thing?
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McPoyo

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2011, 03:56:42 PM »
No, but the primeval form is quite a bit more powerful.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Rejakor

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2011, 04:17:45 PM »
Incarnum + two feats gets you wings that don't violate your VoP.  Alternatively you could dip totemist, which has a couple of other things a ranger might like.

Wouldn't Primeval kind of make shapeshift a bit pointless?

And can't you enter it earlier than that?


With a bit of metagaming you can get fiendish wings grafted onto you without your consent.  That, i'm pretty sure, doesn't count as 'owning'.

McPoyo

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2011, 04:23:33 PM »
Still violates the VoP, even if against your will. Exalted feats section, and the expanded VoP description. Shapeshift qualifies you for Warshaper, which gets you quite a bit of nice things, and yes, you could enter primeval a couple levels earlier (2, iirc), but the power boost from WS 3 and 4 are worth the delay. Yes, shapeshift is redundant at that point, but it's largely irrelevant due to what it gets you from warshaper. It's also a fallback for when you have no Primeval shape uses left.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Benly

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2011, 05:36:38 PM »
Oh, and the animal you use for Primeval is largely irrelevant.

I highly recommend either a raptor-type dino or some kind of kitty, though. Pounce is, as always, great.

nijineko

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2011, 05:37:31 PM »
wildshape ranger doesn't kick in until the 5th level of ranger... does fist progress wildshape, i don't recall? that build as given doesn't qualify for warshaper, since the wildshape ability is not granted until the 5th ranger level, so can't be swapped for shapeshifting until then either.
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McPoyo

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2011, 05:49:07 PM »
wildshape ranger doesn't kick in until the 5th level of ranger... does fist progress wildshape, i don't recall? that build as given doesn't qualify for warshaper, since the wildshape ability is not granted until the 5th ranger level, so can't be swapped for shapeshifting until then either.
it's acf chained to shapeshifter, which does qualify.

Edit: if shapeshifting can'tbe picked up until 5th because of that logic, then druids can't swap the ACF at first either.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

nijineko

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2011, 06:03:51 PM »
what i mean is that the ranger does not get wildshape until 5th, thus not qualifying.

and that's right, druids don't get the acf until they get wildshape. says so in the unearthed arcana.
arukibito ga michi wo erabu no ka, michi ga arukibito wo erabu no deshou ka?
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tealjohn

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2011, 06:07:13 PM »
what i mean is that the ranger does not get wildshape until 5th, thus not qualifying.

and that's right, druids don't get the acf until they get wildshape. says so in the unearthed arcana.

It's not an ACF, its a variant, and its not in UA its in PHB II.
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Benly

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2011, 06:07:47 PM »
Druids do trade something off at first level to get shapeshift - you lose both animal companion at first level and, later, wild shape. On that basis you could make a good case for a ranger having to wait for fourth to get shapeshift.

McPoyo

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2011, 06:24:42 PM »
Except the ACF doesn't cre what levels you get the features, just when you get the NEW ones.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Benly

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2011, 06:41:29 PM »
Except the ACF doesn't cre what levels you get the features, just when you get the NEW ones.

In cases where an ACF is trading in the same feature that different classes acquire at different levels, established protocol for all published adaptations as far as I know is that each class gets the ACF starting at the level where they would normally get the exchanged class feature (Turn Undead ACFs for paladins come to mind).

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2011, 06:43:53 PM »
Except the ACF doesn't cre what levels you get the features, just when you get the NEW ones.

In cases where an ACF is trading in the same feature that different classes acquire at different levels, established protocol for all published adaptations as far as I know is that each class gets the ACF starting at the level where they would normally get the exchanged class feature (Turn Undead ACFs for paladins come to mind).
I think the shapeshifting ranger would get it instead of an animal companion at fourth level for this very reason.
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Benly

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2011, 06:49:02 PM »
I think the shapeshifting ranger would get it instead of an animal companion at fourth level for this very reason.

Yeah, that's the case I lean towards. On the other hand, it's entirely unclear whether he'd get its benefits at full power or reduced level - he has full level for one of the abilities he's trading off and reduced level for the other. I'd lean towards full level just because it's not like a ranger couldn't use whatever edge he can get on this one, and to be honest if I was homebrewing it from the ground up it'd be reasonable (at least, not particularly overpowered) to give it to him starting right from one.

nijineko

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2011, 06:59:37 PM »
from the d20srd about variant abilities:

Quote
These variants simply swap one or more of that class's features for one or more class features of another class. A class feature gained works just as it did for its original class, including the level at which it is gained and any other effects, except as noted below....


shapeshifting is an acf, says so on page 39 of the PHBII. thus it would normally be subject to the unearthed arcana rules. however, it specifically implies in the description that you can shapeshift earlier: "at 4th level, you gain mobility as a bonus feat whenever you are in predator form...." not only does this imply that you can shapeshift at 4th level, it implies earlier.

this would be a case of the specific description of the shapeshift acf overriding the general rule in the ua.

so, now that i've actually read the original text, i have to agree that using the ranger wildshape acf, and then stacking the druid shapeshifting acf, is a sweet workaround way to get changing early.

i see that it will qualify for warshaper after all then, if not for wildshape requiring prestiges. so i stand corrected.

nice.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 07:07:44 PM by nijineko »
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Abner

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Re: Shapeshift Ranger in World's Largest Dungeon
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2011, 07:08:58 PM »
I be healing this shit. I got this