Author Topic: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms  (Read 5924 times)

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Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« on: April 07, 2011, 07:26:29 AM »
My laptop is running out of bettery, so Im making this quick!

I am putting together a cleric for the Age of Worms campaign, and I suspect that turning undead may be a key factor in surviving this campaign. Ive tried to balance things, so I can destroy most undead with my turning, while still being able to contribute when the party encounters living opponents as well.

Here goes:

Race: Lesser aasimar

Stats (28PB):
St: 14
Dx: 10
Co: 14
It: 10
Wi: 16
Ca: 16

ACFs:
Cloistered Cleric

Build:
-1: Cleric 1 Feat (Improved Initiative)
-2: Cleric 2
-3: Cleric 3 Feat (Heighten Turning)
-4: Cleric 4
-5: Cleric 5
-6: Paragnostic Apostle 1 Feat (Extra Turning), knowledge is power (See through the Veil)
-7: Radiant Servant of Pelor* 1
-8: Radiant Servant of Pelor 2
-9: Radiant Servant of Pelor 3 Feat (Power Attack)
-10: Radiant Servant of Pelor 4
-11: Radiant Servant of Pelor 5 Bonus domain (Celerity)
-12: Radiant Servant of Pelor 6 Feat (Extend Spell)
-13: Radiant Servant of Pelor 7
-14: Radiant Servant of Pelor 8
-15: Cleric 6 Feat (Persistant Spell)
-16: Master of Radiance 1
-17: Master of Radiance 2
-18: Master of Radiance 3 Feat (DMM: Persistant Spell)
-19: Master of Radiance 4
-20: Master of Radiance 5
* Adapted for Ehlonna instead of Pelor.

House rules:
- Pelor is an evil god of hatred and deceit. Commoners believe him to be a good and merciful god, but in fact he is the worst of them all.
- All books are allowed, except those that says 'Ebberon', 'DragonLance' or 'Forgotten Realms' on the cover.

Have I understood this corrctly: When I use the greater turning option, I don't roll for turning damage. I simply roll to see how many undead that are affected, and then destroy them. Right? And when I combine that with the heighten turning feat, I can basically double my effective cleric level for the purpose of affecting (=destroying) undead, while I get a penalty of up to my effective cleric level for the turning damage roll that I actually dosen't need to deal. Correct?

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2011, 07:44:33 AM »
Just made it before my battery died.

I should note that the Master of Radiance levels are just filler. I won't actually waste actions on its SLAs, and the caster level loss sucks. I may just take more cleric levels for the skill points, or find another PrC that gives me something that I can actually use, as well as advance my turning level.

CrimsonDeath

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2011, 08:05:32 AM »
Have I understood this corrctly: When I use the greater turning option, I don't roll for turning damage. I simply roll to see how many undead that are affected, and then destroy them. Right? And when I combine that with the heighten turning feat, I can basically double my effective cleric level for the purpose of affecting (=destroying) undead, while I get a penalty of up to my effective cleric level for the turning damage roll that I actually dosen't need to deal. Correct?
Not quite.  You roll your turning check and consult the table and that tells you what to add to your effective Cleric level to determine the maximum HD of an individual undead creature you can affect.  Then you roll your turning damage, and that tells you the total number of HD of undead you can affect.  With a greater turning, you then destroy any undead with fewer effective HD than your effective Cleric level plus the value corresponding to your turning check, with a combined total HD equal to your turning damage.  (With a regular turning, it would only dust undead up to half that many effective HD, with stronger ones fleeing or cowering instead.)  You turn the closest undead first (although you may ignore you've already turned for this purpose) until you run out of HD on your turning damage.  I'm not sure what the priority is on equidistant targets.  My guess would be that you get to pick, but I can't find a rule for it.

Either way, what you really want to optimize is your turning check (you want +15; more won't help) and effective turning level, because with a turning check of 16+ you get your effective Cleric level +4 as the maximum HD of undead, and you'll always get at least your effective Cleric level + Charisma mod + 2 (minimum roll on 2d6).  So, with a 14 Charisma (or the Glory domain and 12 charisma), a +15 turning check will dust at least your effective Cleric level +4 of undead.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 06:03:10 AM by CrimsonDeath »

Widow

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2011, 04:16:09 AM »
Yeah, you are going to be hurting in the turning department at later levels.  The +4 HD cap really gets outpaced as some of the CR's are 1/2 to 1/3 of the HD.  There is alots of equipment that grants + to your turning level, start hunting it down if that is your focus.  Luckly alot of the items given unusual or unlisted bonuses so they stack.

You can get a greater holy symbol from Defenders of the Faith that grants you empowered turning for 5000gp.

CrimsonDeath

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2011, 04:31:45 AM »
There is alots of equipment that grants + to your turning level, start hunting it down if that is your focus.  Luckly alot of the items given unusual or unlisted bonuses so they stack.
Yeah, there used to be a list of them on the WotC board.  Don't know if it was ported over as part of a handbook or not, but I was looking for it earlier and couldn't find it.

BruceLeeroy

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2011, 05:28:12 AM »
Phylactery of Undead Turning, DMG,  +4 to effective cleric level
Scepter of the Netherworld, LM, +3 to effective cleric level
Rod of Undead Mastery -4 turn resistance within 30'
Lyre of the Restful Soul -4 Turn resistance within somenumberoffeet
Light of Wisdom, spell, CC, +1/4CL to your effective cleric level for turn undead

Those should pretty much do it. Anything with that much more HD than your character is probably a boss or miniboss anyways.

CrimsonDeath

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2011, 06:13:48 AM »
Consecrate also gives you +3 Sacred bonus on your turning check and inflicts minor penalties on undead in the area, as well as preventing undead from being created or summoned.  I haven't done Age of Worms, but that might come in handy if anyone does try summoning undead.  (It seems likely.)  Alternatively, Sacred Exorcist 5 emits a constant Consecrate aura.

Nunkuruji

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2011, 12:59:45 PM »
I've been preparing to DM this, since my group just finished CotSQ, here's some general spoilers & thoughts about the campaigns undead if you care to spoil.

[spoiler]
I don't feel like there are a TON of undead in the campaign as a whole, just in particular chapters.
The undead you do face are all very beefy ( HD > CR ), and have the characteristic of Unholy Toughness.
Thus, they have a boatload of HP, turning resistance, and the difficulty of having more HD than you do in most cases.
So, you would certainly need all the help you can get for boosting effective cleric level and turning checks.

Unholy Toughness doesn't do anything for undead fortitude save, so the usual fort save targeting spells are still great.

I'm not sure if the campaign gives out any turning boosters, so if your DM doesn't let you magic mart what you need to boost turning, you might want to forget about it.

[/spoiler]

Rejakor

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2011, 04:22:28 PM »
There's some decent size metropolises about, and most of the turning boosting items are fluff-common + pelor's church exists and probably mass produces the damn things.

Shouldn't have to worry about buying stuff.

That said, you might want to consider another role in addition to turning.  Buffing and healing is fine, but you should probably have something to do in combat.  Cleric archer, cleric blaster, or melee cleric look like they'd fit your current idea, so pick one, and put it into the build alongside your turning shenanigans.

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2011, 02:49:57 PM »
RSoP is a trap. I hate it with a passion. If you are purposely being not optimal, it is great if lazy choice.
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
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And healed. Don't forget that.
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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2011, 03:42:02 PM »
That said, you might want to consider another role in addition to turning.  Buffing and healing is fine, but you should probably have something to do in combat.  Cleric archer, cleric blaster, or melee cleric look like they'd fit your current idea, so pick one, and put it into the build alongside your turning shenanigans.

I am trying to do at least some damage in melee, with Power Attack, Improved initiative and (eventually) DMM: Persist. Granted, the cloistered cleric approach kind of leaves me behind regular cleric 20 in terms of melee power, but I should still work in a pinch.

Thanks for getting my turning straight btw, I have never actually used the ability for anything but fuel for divine feats. Actually, Turn Undead seems like a somewhat sub-optimal ability now. I was hoping for it to be easily optimizable to a degree where it would dust even some undead bosses, but now I kind of suspect that the ability to do so is very dependant on what items I can get, which will more often than not be very few and very random if I know the DM right. Without items, turn undead is probably best used on mooks that would have been a cakewalk either way, and I feel a sudden urge to play an incantatrix instead.

Thank you all for your help anyway.

CrimsonDeath

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2011, 10:36:19 PM »
Actually, Turn Undead seems like a somewhat sub-optimal ability now.
The biggest problem is that corporeal undead are generally pretty weak for their HD (CR 9 Slaughter Wight with 18HD, I'm looking at you) and lots of them have turn resistance, which artificially inflates their HD even more.  Plus it's a wonky mechanic that no other game mechanic uses and references a table buried in a chapter that doesn't see much other use.

Still better than 3.0 psionic combat.  At least you're not burning spell slots for the privilege of incurring penalties on your saves against undead ability damage attacks.

Oh, and before I forget: Ephod of Authority (MIC 215, 800gp, Vestments of Divinity set) is a shirt that gives +1 level for turning (but not rebuking) undead.

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2011, 05:40:21 AM »
My DM has this idea that treasure is always either randomly generated or handpicked for his NPCs (which will not be carrying turning equipment, I suspect), and always from the DMG only. Attempting to make a build that relies on specific non-DMG items is unfortunately just not a very good idea for me.

CrimsonDeath

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2011, 03:16:42 PM »
Does that include starting gear?

What level are you starting at, anyway?

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2011, 07:49:28 PM »
We start at level 1, with average gold for our class.

But no, we can spend starting money as we please.

Rejakor

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Re: Optimizing a cleric for Age of Worms
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2011, 05:08:14 PM »
Turning relies heavily on gear.  If you can't buy it, you might be a bit screwed (although it's a bit of a dick DM who doesn't let turning gear be purchased at temples of 'hates undead' gods in major metropolises, but whatevs).  That's why I recommend being something other than a turn and healbot.  Spelldancer is a nice way of persisting buffs that doesn't eat up your turn attempts.  Look into ordained champion and the other regularly used cleric gish prestiges.