Author Topic: Force multipliers- optimizing multiclass oriented feats.  (Read 5612 times)

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nijineko

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Re: Force multipliers- optimizing multiclass oriented feats.
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2011, 03:53:29 PM »
How about monk/psionic fist with Tashalatora? Double the monk progression on your monk abilities.

hmmmmm. i suppose that if the dm allowed the monastic training class to apply to prestige instead of only to base classes as implied (but not stated) by the feat. works with slayer too, if allowed.
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Nebuchadnezzar

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Re: Force multipliers- optimizing multiclass oriented feats.
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2011, 01:05:18 PM »
It sounds like most of what the OP wants would be met with just a chart of all the potential synergies, and then cramming those desired into a given build.

How much is missing from the chart in the relocated crystalkeep? Um, also, can that be linked to on here, or is there a concern WotC will request it be taken down again?

As far as 'flavorful' builds, I like a monk1/scout1/druid18 with swift avenger and however much chaining of ACFs you feel like.

Unbeliever

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Re: Force multipliers- optimizing multiclass oriented feats.
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2011, 05:08:33 PM »
It sounds like most of what the OP wants would be met with just a chart of all the potential synergies, and then cramming those desired into a given build.

How much is missing from the chart in the relocated crystalkeep? Um, also, can that be linked to on here, or is there a concern WotC will request it be taken down again?

As far as 'flavorful' builds, I like a monk1/scout1/druid18 with swift avenger and however much chaining of ACFs you feel like.

Are you thinking swift avenger would open up swift hunter possibilities? That'd certainly be a bit more badass than the ranger options available. Although again we are at the "only stacks for one ability" thing the OP was so cross about.

If that works I wonder what the possibilities with a cleric archer type would be but I'm AFB.

CrimsonDeath

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Re: Force multipliers- optimizing multiclass oriented feats.
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2011, 06:33:10 PM »
After playing with this idea for a couple of hours, I've concluded that the reason there's not a guide for it is because it's not very useful.  Your best options are generally the most common-- stack the best feature of one, maybe two classes on another class that you take most of your levels in.  Yes, you can burn most of your feats on these ability combinations, but most of the abilities you get aren't that useful.

Suppose you decide to go mostly Monk.  You can get half your favored enemy bonus on the DC of Stunning Fist attempts (but not extra favored enemies) and stack Ranger and Monk levels for Unarmed Strike damage, get +2 to Stunning Fist DCs delivered by Sneak Attack (but not extra sneak attack dice) and stack Rogue and Monk levels for Unarmed Strike damage, stack Paladin and Monk levels for Unarmed Strike and Smite Evil damage (but not extra Smite Evil attempts), stack Monk and Ninja levels for unarmed damage, ki pool, and ki strike (but not extra Sudden Strike damage or ki powers), and stack Monk and Sorcerer levels for AC, add Charisma to AC instead of Wisdom, and burn spells for unarmed strike attack and damage bonuses (but not caster level or spells).  If you take mostly Monk levels, you get very few benefits beyond simply being a monk, lose about half your class features, and burn all your feats.  If you take mostly levels in another class, you lose all the (admittedly weak) benefits you stacked onto Monk, meaning you wasted the levels you used to qualify for the combination feats.

You can also stack features on the Paladin or Ranger the same as the Monk, but it winds up about as helpful.  (One of the most disappointing to me was Devoted Performer, which stacks for Smite Evil damage and Bardic Music uses-- I'd prefer the other way around.)

The best option I see is to combine Ascetic Rogue, Devoted Inquisitor, and Swift Ambusher.  Paladin 2/Monk 2/Scout 3/Rogue 13 gets you Sneak Attack +8d6, 2d6 unarmed damage (easily boosted to 2d10 with a Monk's Belt), Skirmish +4d6/+4 (and the ability to qualify for Ambush feats as though you had Sneak Attack +12d6), Smite Evil 1/day at +4 damage that may daze the target if it's delivered on a sneak attack, and if you have Stunning Fist (6/day), +2 to the DC if it's delivered by sneak attack.  You could give up two Rogue levels (or just drop Paladin) for Swashbuckler levels and get Daring Outlaw, but all you get is +2 on Reflex save and +2 (or +3) to AC against one opponent at a time, and your unarmed strike damage caps out at 2d8 even with a Monk's Belt unless you also get something else to boost your effective Monk level.  If I were ever to try it in an actual game, I'd probably drop Paladin entirely and go for Monk 2/Scout 3/Rogue X with two combo feats, which is a sort of build you explicitly said you didn't want to see because it's already been done to death.

I admit, I'm just working with CAd and CS, since I don't have CoV, but you didn't seem to like the CoV Bard stacking that went on earlier, so I'm inclined to believe the idea isn't very optimized.

Gnomeo

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Re: Force multipliers- optimizing multiclass oriented feats.
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2011, 06:36:00 PM »
It sounds like most of what the OP wants would be met with just a chart of all the potential synergies, and then cramming those desired into a given build.

How much is missing from the chart in the relocated crystalkeep? Um, also, can that be linked to on here, or is there a concern WotC will request it be taken down again?

As far as 'flavorful' builds, I like a monk1/scout1/druid18 with swift avenger and however much chaining of ACFs you feel like.

I like the prospect of adding full skirmish to a Druid at the cost of just a feat and a class level.  It doesn't have the ability to skirmish undead and the like as a Swift Hunter can, but a wildshaped pounce with skirmish would be fun.

That seems to be the best part of these feats: adding a class ability to your "main" class without losing much more than a feat and a class level or two.

The relocated crystalkeep has Swift Avenger and any from the Complete series of books.  The feats in Secrets of Sarlona (Tashalatora & Ascetic Psion) and the Champions of Valor are not there; and neither are some of the other Dragon magazines.  Some of those are nice, like the ones that stack Cleric with Rogue for turning and sneak attack; or Cleric with Bard for turning and bardic music.
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Hallack

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Re: Force multipliers- optimizing multiclass oriented feats.
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2011, 07:58:50 PM »
It's rather niche but these types of feats of course kick some ass in Gestalt, even E6 gestalt for even more niche.
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ninjarabbit

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Re: Force multipliers- optimizing multiclass oriented feats.
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2011, 09:10:32 PM »
rogue3/monk2/ranger6/scout4/paladin5

Feats: able learner, nymph's kiss, ascetic rogue, ascetic hunter, ascetic knight, swift hunter, devoted tracker, swift ambusher

17 BAB, Unarmed strike damage as a 16th level monk, 2 smites/day as a 13th level paladin, 3d6 sneak attack, skirmish +4d6/+4

Yeah probably something you won't play in a campaign but more of a thought exercise


More realistically I'd go scout4/ranger11/paladin5 with swift hunter and devoted tracker, it ties up much fewer feats and gives you +4d6/+4 skirmish, 4 favored enemies, and smiting as a 16th level paladin.