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Author Topic: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice  (Read 3610 times)

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TheAbyssDragon

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Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« on: March 31, 2011, 01:17:46 AM »
I'm looking to create a psionic gish starting around level 4 or 5. Play will hopefully go through level 15, but is likely to progress slowly. Overall, I want a fair balance between martial prowess and manifesting flexibility. The general build I'm aiming for is the classic Ranger/Psion/Slayer route, perhaps with some Sanctified Mind in there. The current build I have in mind is essentially the King of Smack, with some minor feat changes (no Karmic Strike or prereqs). However, I'm also intrigued by something like a Monk/Ardent tashalatora, though I personally prefer psion over ardent.

A note on houserules: Polymorph, metamorphosis, and the like are all prohibited for simplicity and balance. The DM and I agree that the racial requirement of Rapidstrike is fud, so it has been waived. All non-campaign specific books are allowed, plus all Eberron books.

So I'm curious to know what everyones opinions are on weapon choice. Should I go claws, unarmed, or standard weapon? Given that choice, how would I pursue it best?

Thanks in advanced!
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Ras F

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2011, 01:44:41 AM »
Might be worth it to check if your DM will let you use "Unarmed Strikes" as your "primary weapon", and natural attacks as 'secondary weapons'.

Putting forth Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 05:53:58 PM by Ras F »
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CantripN

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2011, 03:31:26 PM »
Is it really a question? It's legal, it's explicitly allowed, and it's not broken. That said, Tashaltora + Natural Weapons works oh so well.
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Endarire

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2011, 05:51:51 PM »
I'm also a fan of deep crystal lances for a Diamond Heart psi gish, Hood optional.
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TheAbyssDragon

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2011, 07:32:00 PM »
I think using unarmed strikes and other available attacks is kosher. So unarmed strikes AND natural attacks seems to be the way to go? Is there a feasible way to accomplish this using psion rather than ardent? I guess it's only really one extra feat (Camindine Monk/Ascetic Psion), but Monk/Ardent seems more integrated.
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nijineko

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2011, 02:43:34 AM »
you could always take kung-fu genius instead of carmindine monk...

a natural attack as secondary to a flurry is valid.
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TheAbyssDragon

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2011, 08:31:09 PM »
So either way it's going to take me at least three feats instead of two. In addition, Ardent has better BAB and HD, which makes it a better choice for tashalatora. If I went Psion, I'd definately have to go into Slayer or Sanctified Mind, which wouldn't make the most out of the tashalatora feat.

So Monk/Ardent or Monk/Psion/Slayer?
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2011, 08:34:36 PM »
What about the soulbound weapon psywar? It's amazing what you can do with a freebie weapon you can customize to your whims every single fight.
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Littha

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2011, 09:08:41 PM »
Quote from: TheAbyssDragon on April 01, 2011, 08:31:09 PM
So either way it's going to take me at least three feats instead of two. In addition, Ardent has better BAB and HD, which makes it a better choice for tashalatora. If I went Psion, I'd definately have to go into Slayer or Sanctified Mind, which wouldn't make the most out of the tashalatora feat.

So Monk/Ardent or Monk/Psion/Slayer?

Monk/Ardent if you want to be a better gish, Monk/Psion/Slayer if you want to have more powers known.  Ardents get a lot of previously psiwarrior only powers in some mantles, a few of which are pretty good for psi-gish obviously.

So basically:
Monk/Psion/Slayer: Psion with unarmed damage and 33 powers known
Monk/Ardent/Slayer: Psion with unarmed damage, higher BaB, Higher HP, Better combat powers (Psionic Lions Charge) and 19 powers known. And Mantle Powers. And Dominant Ideal.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 09:13:06 PM by Littha »
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awaken DM golem

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2011, 05:17:24 PM »
Monk has a feat (somewhere around here)
that lets it Flurry with any Light weapon.
Add in a little Titan Bloodline level 12 flavor = Huge Light weapon.
Totemist 1 or 2 fits in too.
Monk 2 / Totemist 2 / Titan Bloodline 3 / Ardent 10 / probably A.I. 3
... not necessarily in this order.
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TheWyrmDude

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2011, 05:55:47 PM »
Unorthodox Flurry from Dragon Compendium (Dragon 279) lets you select a single light weapon to flurry with.
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TheAbyssDragon

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2011, 01:16:49 AM »
I think I'll go Monk/Ardent, with or without Slayer/Sanctified Mind. I like psywars, but that's not really what I'm going for here. Also, Dragon isn't an allowed source material.

Thanks for all the help! I may check back with feat/power choices.
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nijineko

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2011, 02:35:12 AM »
well, the dragon compendium is an officially published hardcopy... the material just happened to originate from the dragon mags. as such, it represents what wotc thought was acceptable. ^^ and is fully 100% official, even by "no-dragon" standards. that and the 3.5 update to oriental are the only "dragon" materials one of my dms allow.
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TheAbyssDragon

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2011, 10:28:33 AM »
If I would have taken more time to read your post, I would have realized that. Yes, Dragon Compendium is an allowed material. Sorry about that.
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nijineko

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2011, 02:27:43 PM »
no biggie. =D i just wish the targeteer had made the compendium. ^^
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TheAbyssDragon

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2011, 01:06:04 AM »
So I've seen lots of people recommend a psionic adaptation of the Jade Phoenix Mage, but I've never seen anyone do it. How would a warblade/psion/JPM turn out? I could possibly use tiger claw to keep Claws of the Beast in the picture.

Trying to use Ardent is just too restrictive. I don't have enough feats, and even with the substitution mantles I can't get all the powers I want.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 01:35:54 AM by TheAbyssDragon »
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Littha

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2011, 01:23:09 AM »
Quote from: TheAbyssDragon on April 13, 2011, 01:06:04 AM
So I've seen lots of people recommend a psionic adaptation of the Jade Phoenix Mage, but I've never seen anyone do it. How would a warblade/psion/JPM turn out? I could possibly use blood claw to stick keep Claws of the Beast in the picture.

Trying to use Ardent is just too restrictive. I don't have enough feats, and even with the substitution mantles I can't get all the powers I want.

While it is true that an Ardent is down 15 powers known at level 20 compared to a psion remember that they do have access to a lot of otherwise PsiWarrior specific powers that help with Gish use immensely.

Psionic Lions Charge for example.

The key with ardent is compromise, you wont have all the best powers in the game but you will get the ones that make you better at what you are trying to do. That and Dominant Ideal.... with Linked Power. And Metapower if you can pull it.
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TheAbyssDragon

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2011, 09:04:59 PM »
Sure, but how might I get all those psywar powers without completely rewriting a mantle or two? My DM and I are ok with variations on the mantles, as per the web enhancement, but it seems impractical to revamp them entirely.
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Littha

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2011, 05:25:36 PM »
Physical Power and Conflict have several already. The handy chart below demonstrates; bold black are powers psions dont get but psychic warrirors do, red is the same but its a specialist psion power, blue is unique to ardent.

Conflict:
Metaphysical Weapon
Offensive Prescience
Psionic Lions Charge
Dimension Slide
Immovability
Psychic crush
Graft Weapon
Spirit of War

Physical Power:
Adrenaline Boost
Vigour
Animal Affinity
Graft Weapon
Psychofeedback
Oak Body
True Metabolism
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TheAbyssDragon

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Re: Psionic Gish Weapon Choice
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2011, 11:48:46 AM »
So far I have Kalashtar Monk2/Ardent10/xxx8. Chosen mantles are conflict, physical power, life (for some off healing), and a fourth unpicked.

Feats are:
1. Hidden Talent (claws of the beast), level
1. Monastic Training (ardent), monk bonus
2. Overchannel, Kalashtar monk bonus
3. Tashalatora (ardent), level
3. Weapon focus (claw), conflict mantle bonus
6. Superior Unarmed Strike, level
9. Snap Kick, level
12. ??, level
15. Rapid Strike, level
18. Improved Rapid Strike, level

Any thoughts?
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