Author Topic: It's Time To Duel  (Read 26227 times)

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altpersona

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #100 on: April 22, 2011, 12:10:06 PM »
oh yay, yu gi oh
The goal of power is power. - idk
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Kajhera

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #101 on: April 22, 2011, 12:33:05 PM »
Yu-Gi-Oh, Yugiohl Champions - wait no.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #102 on: April 22, 2011, 03:13:57 PM »
"Screw the rules; I have Sunic!"
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
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[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Sunic_Flames

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #103 on: April 23, 2011, 12:58:23 PM »
"Screw the rules; I have Sunic!"

No you don't.
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There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

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[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

AleksanderTheGreat

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #104 on: April 23, 2011, 02:52:37 PM »
Quote from: Sephirothsword117
Quote from: Solo
Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.
I'm inclined to disagree. People work hard on there characters, there personality, back ground, appearance, so forth. No one wants there character that they have invested time, energy, thought, and probably emotion in to be killed because they didn't take strong enough feats or skills or spells or what have you.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #105 on: April 23, 2011, 06:32:44 PM »
"Screw the rules; I have Sunic!"

No you don't.
And there it is!

You know Jarona, you'd think you'd Abundant Step away by now.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

AleksanderTheGreat

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #106 on: April 23, 2011, 06:47:16 PM »
"Screw the rules; I have Sunic!"

No you don't.
And there it is!

You know Jarona, you'd think you'd Abundant Step away by now.


You know Roy, you'd think about some new material to insult people. You got boring.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 06:49:06 PM by AleksanderTheGreat »
Quote from: Sephirothsword117
Quote from: Solo
Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.
I'm inclined to disagree. People work hard on there characters, there personality, back ground, appearance, so forth. No one wants there character that they have invested time, energy, thought, and probably emotion in to be killed because they didn't take strong enough feats or skills or spells or what have you.

Talore

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #107 on: April 23, 2011, 09:30:40 PM »
"Screw the rules; I have Sunic!"
Holy crap. Sunic_Flames is Seto Kaiba.
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Prime32

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #108 on: April 23, 2011, 10:03:30 PM »
"Screw the rules; I have Sunic!"
Holy crap. Sunic_Flames is Seto Kaiba.
Don't be ridiculous.

Sunic is money. Or green hair. One of the two. ???
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

AleksanderTheGreat

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #109 on: April 24, 2011, 10:44:57 AM »
"Screw the rules; I have Sunic!"
Holy crap. Sunic_Flames is Seto Kaiba.
How's that? ???
Because he's rude? Come on, Kaiba was at least inteligent and successful. I could respect him for what he does (run a very successful company) and look aside his rudeness. But Sunic? He's expecting respect for knowing a little more then me about a  mere GAME, HOBBY. I like RPG but being well versed in DnD isn't enough for me to kiss his ass for it.

End of offtopic on my part.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 10:46:41 AM by AleksanderTheGreat »
Quote from: Sephirothsword117
Quote from: Solo
Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.
I'm inclined to disagree. People work hard on there characters, there personality, back ground, appearance, so forth. No one wants there character that they have invested time, energy, thought, and probably emotion in to be killed because they didn't take strong enough feats or skills or spells or what have you.

Sir Giacomo

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #110 on: April 24, 2011, 09:31:42 PM »
Why, Giacomo's style of course! Why did you think I meant intelligence?

Anyways, there's a few things that seem off.
Quote


Giacomo, in his monk thread, made detailed calculations of his monk's AB, AC and etc. He showed himself willing to demonstrate how other posters who criticized him were wrong by running numbers against their numbers. This block is just a bunch of assertions with no calculation to back it up.

Not solid evidence, but it's a little different from what I remember.

Funnily enough you quoted my post where I did exactly that: detailed calculations. When you actually believe that 10+57=57 you can certainly cling to such a belief, but I hope other posters will see the reality here.

Quote
Of course such an AC removes your build from usual melee concerns from the Balor and the Dragon which at level 15 sorcerer casting likely is a wyrm blue dragon (CR 23) or some such.
Now, here's another odd thing. Giacomo is well versed in core (or at least considers himself to be) so surely he would know that an Ancient Brass Dragon is a CR 20 monster that casts as a 15th level sorcerer. It's one of the results in the d20 SRD's monster search.


Again, this is could be explained in other ways, such as carelessness, but it doesn't make me feel confident in the poster's identity.
Quote
You could dare me to go through the math of it with you, but I caution you: do not go that road again. You lost so far every discussion with me that involved numerical evidence.

I don't think Giacomo would ever make such a statement, as every time we ran into each other previously, the argument went on until the thread got locked.
I suppose he might have considered himself the victor, but honestly it'd take a pretty vain person to think he won just because his opponent was unable to respond due to thread lockage. Giacomo might have thought himself to have had the stronger position in the argument, but it's pretty obvious that winning a war is not the same thing as having won a war. (See Nazis vs Russia for details)
Quote


In his monk guide, Giacomo pointed out the specific items his monk would have to counter various challenges. The fact that he does not include anything of the sort this time strikes me as unusual. Even a simple mention of earplugs would have been nice.

The poster also thinks a Balor would be stupid to use Blasphemy before ascertaining the enemy's power. However, Blasphemy can in fact be used to determine what level the enemy is, as its effects are based off of the victim's hit dice. By observing its effects on the targets, an estimation of their levels can be made. Giacomo has proven himself familiar with Blasphemy in the past, so there is really no excuse for this statement.
Quote

Giacomo is familiar with no-save spells from 1-7 that would stand a good chance of being problematic for a level 20 melee character, such as Solid Fog, Sleet Storm, Wall of Force, Power Word Blind, Contingency, Limited Wish, Waves of Exhaustion, Reverse Gravity, Grasping Hand, and so on.

I think you included in your build a ring of blinking.
For convenience, your original post here:
[spoiler]
Alright, so I had the recent and unique insight that the Duelist prestige class synergies with the Monk. Behold what can be done when you put these two powerful character options together, for it shall make even the mightiest wizard quake in his boots!

The thought occurred to me when I realized that the Duelist was the only other core class than the monk which received a mental stat to AC, namely Int. Obviously, if you made a character focused on Dexterity, Wisdom, and Intelligence, you could get sky-high AC and be nigh-invulnerable in combat. Thus I propose the following build for anyone who enjoys swashbuckling combat in a high-stakes environment.

Class progression: Monk6/Fighter2/Paladin2/Duelist10
Race: Human
Feats:
Monk bonus: Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip
Fighter Bonus: Dodge, Mobility
Character: Improved Initiative, Combat Expertise, Weapon Finesse,  Improved Natural Attack, Two Weapon Fighting, Spring Attack, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting

With this setup, you will have +18 BAB, which is only 2 less than that of an 20th level Fighter, meaning you won't have any trouble when it comes to hitting. Moreover, your defense will be outstanding. Not only is your regular AC high, but your touch AC will be phenomenal.

Assuming a total score of 26, 22, 22 in Dex, Int, and Wis respectively, AC when fighting defensively can be as high as:
8 (Dex)+ 6 (Int) + 6 (Wis) + 2 (Monk AC bonus) +1 (Haste) +5 (Bracers of Armor) + 5 (Deflection) + 1 (Ioun Stone) + 5 (Defending) +5 (Combat Expertise) +3 (fighting defensively with 5 ranks in Tumble) + 10 (Duelist class bonus when fighting defensively) = 57 (Touch 52)

Assumed equipment: Monk's Belt, Boots of Speed, Bracers of Armor, Ring of Deflection, Ioun Stone, +5 Defending Kama, various Tomes.

When you compare this to high level monsters such as a Balor or Pit Fiend, with attack bonuses of +33 and +30 respectively, we can see that they are simply unable to be hit by either of them except on a natural 20. This is an incredible asset in combat because it makes you nearly invincible.

Now, a Duelist won't be able to deal much damage, but you're not playing a Duelist to kick ass in the same way a Barbarian does, you're doing it for the roleplaying potential. Besides, there are so many other roles in battle to fill; a Duelist's main strength is mobility, so it would be a good idea to capitalize on that. Spring Attack, tumble, and Mobility allow you to run around the battlefield at top speed thanks to your unarmored status, dealing damage wherever it is needed to support the main melee combatants and providing a critical flanking bonus so that the rogue can sneak attack should he wind up in an unfavorable position. In addition, you can stun enemies with your Stunning Fist attack, whose DC will be through the roof since Wisdom is an important stat for this build. This is truly a superior supporting character for the battlefield that not even a Bard can rival.

Since your reflex saves would be through the roof, you will never fail a reflex save. Since you have evasion, that means a wizard could cast Fireball at you all day without you breaking so much as a sweat. If he chooses to cast ray spells, he'll miss horribly, since not even True Strike would enable a ray to hit. Fortitude saves will be a cinch to make due to getting a great fortitude progression from the fighter, paladin and monk, as well as Cha to saves; likewise, the monk's good will saves coupled with high wisdom and the paladin's save bonus means that will saves will be trivial to pass as well. Anything else can obviously be handled by a simple Mantle of Spell Resistance combined with a Ring of Blinking, so you aren't even there half the time!

Admittedly, a Magic Missile spell can still target you if you're on the Etheral Plane, but a simple wand of Shield can solve that problem. Due to your high Int, you will have more skill points than you know what to deal with, so having cross class ranks in UMD is entirely possible. Combined with the Charisma you have for saves, you'll easily be able to make the DC20 UMD check to activate a wand.

It's worth noting that since activating a wand has a flat DC, you could use wands of other spells to augment your fighting capability. If you find that there is not enough cash in your coffers after boosting your Dex, Int, Wis, and Cha, then a few partially charged wands may make for a good investment, like buying used cars.

This is how you make a truly fearsome magekiller! Wield carefully this power you now hold in your hand, for knowledge is a double edged, two bladed sword with spikes on the handle.
Quote

I'm pretty sure Giacomo knows of the Reverse Gravity + Gate trick, and the closely related Time Stop + PAO ground into air + Gate trick, both of which send the Tarrasque to another plane of existence, which makes this statement baffling.
Quote


Out of everything in that post, this is what makes me doubt him the most. Giacomo tended to be good natured (or at least he pretended to be) and could be quite passive aggressive, but never openly mocked or insulted people. Perhaps this was for fear of the moderators at GitP, but he behaved the same way when I had a run in with him on Gleemax. He would never say something like this.

Now, it's possible that I am wrong. Giacomo could have grown lazy, forgotten the rules of the game, and become a troll, but his personality remained consistent enough through the years I was on GitP that I'd doubt it.

In conclusion, sir, I say that it is you who fails, for you fail at pretending to be Giacomo.

-Solo

AleksanderTheGreat

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #111 on: April 24, 2011, 09:56:58 PM »
Quote
A suggestion of mine, a peace offer if you will:
Apologise for the way you presented what I wrote, in particular my monk guide, here on these boards (including your parodies).
Like that's going to happen. :lol
Quote from: Sephirothsword117
Quote from: Solo
Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.
I'm inclined to disagree. People work hard on there characters, there personality, back ground, appearance, so forth. No one wants there character that they have invested time, energy, thought, and probably emotion in to be killed because they didn't take strong enough feats or skills or spells or what have you.

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #112 on: April 24, 2011, 10:04:02 PM »
A suggestion of mine, a peace offer if you will:
Apologise for the way you presented what I wrote, in particular my monk guide, here on these boards (including your parodies).

What do you think? It would be a new start.

- Giacomo
I suppose you want me to drag the railroad car out of the museum?

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Sir Giacomo

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #113 on: April 24, 2011, 10:15:16 PM »
A suggestion of mine, a peace offer if you will:
Apologise for the way you presented what I wrote, in particular my monk guide, here on these boards (including your parodies).

What do you think? It would be a new start.

- Giacomo
I suppose you want me to drag the railroad car out of the museum?

Well ... provided we had used it already before  :D ...
and after that ... what about a civilised discussion (in a new thread) on either the capabilities of monks in a core rules environment. Or that of sorcerers. You choose.

- Giacomo

Solo

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #114 on: April 24, 2011, 11:15:29 PM »
I'm not interested in having a discussion with you, "Giacomo". You've already proven that you're not interested in a civilized discussion. You are here to start a fight under pretexts, which, I admit almost worked, for I have no doubt that you are a master baiter, but unfortunately for you, I am a cunning linguist and noticed that your syntax was off.

So no, I won't be apologizing to you any time soon for anything I've ever said, both because what you said is stupid and because you're not the person I said those things to. You are a fourth rate impersonator of a third rate troll from a second rate forum, so I suggest you drop this charade in respect for your betters - by which I mean the real Giacomo.

Now if you excuse me, I have some real business to attend to that trumps having an argument with a choleric Frenchman. Assuming it's really you, Giacomo, which I doubt.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 11:30:54 PM by Solo »

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

ninjarabbit

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #115 on: April 25, 2011, 12:00:53 AM »
The hardest part of my job here on BG is informing the strawwife and strawchildren that the strawman perished in the line of duty.

Sir Giacomo

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #116 on: April 25, 2011, 10:48:26 AM »
I'm not interested in having a discussion with you, "Giacomo". You've already proven that you're not interested in a civilized discussion. You are here to start a fight under pretexts, which, I admit almost worked, for I have no doubt that you are a master baiter, but unfortunately for you, I am a cunning linguist and noticed that your syntax was off.

So no, I won't be apologizing to you any time soon for anything I've ever said, both because what you said is stupid and because you're not the person I said those things to. You are a fourth rate impersonator of a third rate troll from a second rate forum, so I suggest you drop this charade in respect for your betters - by which I mean the real Giacomo.

Now if you excuse me, I have some real business to attend to that trumps having an argument with a choleric Frenchman. Assuming it's really you, Giacomo, which I doubt.

Well ... I must say I am somewhat surprised about this reaction.
But it can't be helped, I guess ...

This way, we are bound to meet again some time on different sides of the argument again on this board. ;)

- Giacomo

Solo

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #117 on: April 25, 2011, 01:05:14 PM »
"Giacomo", I am rather surprised that you didn't correct me for referring to you as French, considering that you are German. Well, the real one is, at any rate.

And I doubt we'll be meeting again in arguments on this board, as you've yet to actually contribute to anything. Guess you're just here to rile me up. Quite touching in a way, but as they say, an imitation is no substitute for the real thing.

C'est la vie.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 01:53:10 PM by Solo »

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #118 on: April 25, 2011, 01:38:04 PM »
Herp de derp removed.

You know Roy, you'd think about some new material to insult people. You got boring.

Low strong fucktard.

With that said, the more I analyze the Giacomo clown, the more he reminds me of Faelryinth. Not enough to actually be Faelryinth, but the style is a lot closer to Faelryinth than the actual Giacomo. It would also explain why he did not bother correcting being called French, because as we all know Faelryinth is a Frog. :P

Granted, he is missing the biggest tells, namely in that he actually knows how to multi quote, and does not abuse bold tags. But Faelryinth has had several years to learn how to use a forum, so he's probably gotten the hang of it by now. He also knows that if he did behave in a manner that proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he was in fact Faelryinth, the entire board would rend him to pieces before you can say "Turtle Fail".
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If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Saxony

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Re: It's Time To Duel
« Reply #119 on: April 25, 2011, 01:40:04 PM »
There are two duels in this thread.

One of them is entertaining.
If I say something about real world physics, and someone disagrees, assume I am right 90% of the time. This number goes up to 100% if I am late night posting - trust me, my star dust sibs.