Author Topic: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.  (Read 36254 times)

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #60 on: March 21, 2011, 08:50:40 PM »
I wouldn't mind trying out my psychic warrior build, but it uses item crafting in a big way. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2926.msg97988#msg97988

You cannot exceed WBL in any way. So you can take a bunch of feats, and tell me how much XP you spent on Psychic Reformation, and crafting items, and you can still not have any items more than anyone else who didn't take those feats or spend that XP.
What if he goes it solo?

Also, I guess I could boost his level a bit, but that'd mean some extra work on my part...
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Mixster

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #61 on: March 21, 2011, 08:57:31 PM »
Also, what about flaws?
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Kaelik

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #62 on: March 21, 2011, 09:17:56 PM »
I wouldn't mind trying out my psychic warrior build, but it uses item crafting in a big way. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2926.msg97988#msg97988

You cannot exceed WBL in any way. So you can take a bunch of feats, and tell me how much XP you spent on Psychic Reformation, and crafting items, and you can still not have any items more than anyone else who didn't take those feats or spend that XP.

Not the best place to use an artificer then.  :p

That's somewhat intentional. I don't have a way to model the overwhelming wealth expenditure that some kinds of Artificers have as a drawback in a 4 encounter day.

Also, what about flaws?

They are fine. Two, only at level 1, not at weird levels to get higher pre-req feats.

Kaelik

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #63 on: March 23, 2011, 01:18:35 AM »
Bump for you guys submitting parties already.

Mixster

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #64 on: March 23, 2011, 09:46:22 AM »
What was the link to the subforum again?
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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Kaelik

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #65 on: March 23, 2011, 12:05:58 PM »
I didn't give it, because no one has a a party yet. As soon as I have a party, I'll create a thread for that party.

juton

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #66 on: March 23, 2011, 01:04:33 PM »
Remember that this advice was also written with the blaster-mage mentality, where a moderately-challenging fight might require 3-4 spells.

I figure while people are running off and optimizing builds someone should test the naive base case. While it's doubtful I'll survive all 4 encounters, with Kaelik's indulgence, I'd like to quantify how badly my team loses. We know they probably will, the only real question to me is how much.

I'm thinking Human Fighter (Greatsword), Halfling Rogue (TWFing), Dwarven Cleric (Healbot), and Gray Elf Wizard (Blaster). I was going to go core only but I can't bring myself to blast with only core spells. I'm going to limit myself to core+completes+spell compendium, I'll have more details in a while.

Mixster

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #67 on: March 23, 2011, 03:33:20 PM »
I'll probably do something like:
Necropolitan Master of Shrouds
Ghost Bard/Warblade
Necropolitan Wizard or Erudite
Druid or Necropolitan Malconvoker

A party themed around summoning the idea is that everyone should synergize with everyone.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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AleksanderTheGreat

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #68 on: March 23, 2011, 08:22:02 PM »
Oh I'll make a party. I'll make a party so hard... I'll make a party that makes you feel so awkward downstairs.

You'll see the party and only be able to respond, "Oh yeah baby."
Am I invited? :flutter
I'll bring my Green Whisperer/Fochlucan Lyrist and some chips. You bring the rest. :p
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Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.
I'm inclined to disagree. People work hard on there characters, there personality, back ground, appearance, so forth. No one wants there character that they have invested time, energy, thought, and probably emotion in to be killed because they didn't take strong enough feats or skills or spells or what have you.

Kaelik

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2011, 04:33:36 PM »
No seriously, I hate you guys. I go through all the trouble of creating tons of CR encounters, like, literal lists of them, and then none of you can make a party.

I'll probably do something like:
Necropolitan Master of Shrouds
Ghost Bard/Warblade
Necropolitan Wizard or Erudite
Druid or Necropolitan Malconvoker

A party themed around summoning the idea is that everyone should synergize with everyone.


So you looked through my ban list, and realized that while 14 of the 15 items were just straight bans, one of the 15 was just a caution, that encourages you to not use it, because it's a lot of work for me.

And then you said "I'll make a whole party of that, to make it even more work."

I hate you. As a person.

juton

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2011, 04:39:00 PM »
No seriously, I hate you guys. I go through all the trouble of creating tons of CR encounters, like, literal lists of them, and then none of you can make a party.

Whoa there kimosabe, I should have my party (ECL 9) finished by Saturday at the latest, I assume there is nothing wrong with what I've outlined.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #71 on: March 24, 2011, 04:41:08 PM »
I guess I could make a party of 4 psions.

The fact that I can make them all tier 0 is beside the point.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Bester

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #72 on: March 24, 2011, 05:26:38 PM »
So the purpose of this thread, I'm going to try to create a CR encounter arena, in which people can make parties, either as four people, or one person playing four characters, and then I will run them through a set of four CR appropriate encounters, as per the encounter guidelines, that are also at least somehow a likely set of four encounters to hit in the same day, for whatever reason.

There is a world of difference between one person metagaming a party(super tactics), and a group of players futzing it up(not so super tactics).  Half of the reason blaster wizards don't work is friendly fire as an example.

Even 4 experienced players aren't going to have the same tactical advantage as one guy running 4 dudes is what I'm saying.  If you want a fair test in game design, designate 4 players or something like that.  Frustration at other players is part of the reason why some of us want to run a character who can competently do most things.

Kaelik

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #73 on: March 24, 2011, 06:18:55 PM »
There is a world of difference between one person metagaming a party(super tactics), and a group of players futzing it up(not so super tactics).  Half of the reason blaster wizards don't work is friendly fire as an example.

Even 4 experienced players aren't going to have the same tactical advantage as one guy running 4 dudes is what I'm saying.  If you want a fair test in game design, designate 4 players or something like that.  Frustration at other players is part of the reason why some of us want to run a character who can competently do most things.

That's true to an extent, and if four people want to create a party, that's fine, but for example, I have one person attempting to show a "standard party" of Greatsword Fighter, Halfing TWFing Rogue, Healer Cleric, Blaster Wizard, and I doubt he's going to find someone to play a Greatsword Fighter only. Likewise I have someone with a largely not good classes set up. Ect. While interparty issues are usually a factor, they aren't always, and I am confident enough that this will pan out how I planned, that I'm not worried.

Mixster

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #74 on: March 24, 2011, 06:55:35 PM »
Wasn't the whole point of this thread to show that Tier 1 parties also have trouble handling more than 4 encounters per day?

I was about to create a tier 1 party that can reliably deal with anything that is thrown at them without having to rely on divination to prepare themselves.

But if you just nerf anything that makes tier 1 tier 1, then saying tier 1 can't deal with 4 encounters per day is sort of silly.

Also, I'm confused, you only have 13 guidelines. 4 of which are bans on Metamagic reducers in their various forms. But say that I break number 15? Is it the one about calling magic? Then I deliberately asked you about whether summoning was ok, to which you replied:

Quote
I mean Lesser, regular, and Greater Planar Binding, Gate, any variation of Planar Binding, and probably some other stuff, which I'll know when I see it. If there are any calling effects that don't call in creatures, they are probably fine. And if there are summoning effects that act like these, they are probably banned.

Which are the long duration summoning effects. This party would call in their creatures from fight to fight, except for a few gray render skeleton blokes to bring some bodies to the battle.

The party isn't even out of place in a neutral undead themed campaign.

But allright, if you are gonna go all Tourettes on me, good luck with your arena thingie.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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X-Codes

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #75 on: March 24, 2011, 07:01:24 PM »
Fine, how about this:
Human Crusader/Barbarian/Cleric/Ordained Champion/Frenzied Berserker
Human Rogue/Illusionist/Unseen Seer/Swiftblade
Gnome Cleric/Divine Prankster/Shadowcraft Mage/something...
Kobold Wizard/Sorcerer/Mindbender/Ultimate Magus/Archmage

juton

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #76 on: March 24, 2011, 07:06:52 PM »
On metamagic cost reducers: I was planning on taking a few metamagic rods of various make, are those allowed?

Kaelik

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #77 on: March 24, 2011, 07:13:18 PM »
Wasn't the whole point of this thread to show that Tier 1 parties also have trouble handling more than 4 encounters per day?

But if you just nerf anything that makes tier 1 tier 1, then saying tier 1 can't deal with 4 encounters per day is sort of silly.

You were mistaken. I never said the word Tier. Because, see the Tier thread. The Tier system is fucking retarded, and that's not what this is about.

I banned the things which break the game. One of those is absurd minions, but I didn't specifically ban it, just generically limit it.

Then you made a whole party of minionmancers, after I specifically requested that be kept to the minimum.

Also, I'm confused, you only have 13 guidelines. 4 of which are bans on Metamagic reducers in their various forms. But say that I break number 15? Is it the one about calling magic? Then I deliberately asked you about whether summoning was ok, to which you replied:

Quote
13) No Leadership, and I might punch you in the face through the internet if you try to tell me what absurd creatures you have Dominated or Animated before this starts. If you want to animate something, it better be readily accessible, and usually travel in packs with a lower EL than your level, so no, your level 5 character cannot have a Fire Giant Skeleton.

Kaelik

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #78 on: March 24, 2011, 07:15:09 PM »
Fine, how about this:
Human Crusader/Barbarian/Cleric/Ordained Champion/Frenzied Berserker
Human Rogue/Illusionist/Unseen Seer/Swiftblade
Gnome Cleric/Divine Prankster/Shadowcraft Mage/something...
Kobold Wizard/Sorcerer/Mindbender/Ultimate Magus/Archmage

Probably not the Shadowcraft Mage, where is Divine Prankster from?

And what level do you imagine them being, because I'm already seeing Archmage, and that on a Ultimate Magus Theurge.

On metamagic cost reducers: I was planning on taking a few metamagic rods of various make, are those allowed?

Fine, as long as you pay for them.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: CR Appropriate encounters Arena.
« Reply #79 on: March 24, 2011, 07:27:33 PM »
How is magic/psionics transparency? Can I use metamagic rods as a psion, orange ioun stones, and so on?
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]