Author Topic: A Mighty Leader Of Armies  (Read 5848 times)

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Gattack

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2011, 12:15:22 AM »
That's the list of epic fighter bonus feats, not the list of fighter bonus feats.
Epic Fighter Bonus Feats are still Fighter Bonus Feats.

AleksanderTheGreat

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2011, 12:38:03 AM »
That's the list of epic fighter bonus feats, not the list of fighter bonus feats.
Epic Fighter Bonus Feats are still Fighter Bonus Feats.
Then Fighters can take epic fighter bonus feats... on 1st level? Sweet. :D

But seriously. SRD on epic feats:
"Acquiring Epic Feats

Characters gain epic feats in the following ways:

At 21st level, and every three levels thereafter, the character may select an epic feat in place of a nonepic feat.

Each character class gains bonus epic feats according to the class description. These feats must be selected from the list of bonus epic feats for that class."

BTW. Where are the epic fighter bonus feats in ELH? I don't see any.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 12:44:00 AM by AleksanderTheGreat »
Quote from: Sephirothsword117
Quote from: Solo
Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.
I'm inclined to disagree. People work hard on there characters, there personality, back ground, appearance, so forth. No one wants there character that they have invested time, energy, thought, and probably emotion in to be killed because they didn't take strong enough feats or skills or spells or what have you.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2011, 12:40:34 AM »
That's the list of epic fighter bonus feats, not the list of fighter bonus feats.
Epic Fighter Bonus Feats are still Fighter Bonus Feats.
Then Fighters can take epic fighter bonus feats... on 1st level? Sweet. :D

But seriously. SRD on epic feats:
"Acquiring Epic Feats

Characters gain epic feats in the following ways:

At 21st level, and every three levels thereafter, the character may select an epic feat in place of a nonepic feat.

Each character class gains bonus epic feats according to the class description. These feats must be selected from the list of bonus epic feats for that class."
Most of them aren't really worth it...
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Gattack

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2011, 12:47:49 AM »
That's the list of epic fighter bonus feats, not the list of fighter bonus feats.
Epic Fighter Bonus Feats are still Fighter Bonus Feats.
Then Fighters can take epic fighter bonus feats... on 1st level? Sweet. :D

But seriously. SRD on epic feats:
"Acquiring Epic Feats

Characters gain epic feats in the following ways:

At 21st level, and every three levels thereafter, the character may select an epic feat in place of a nonepic feat.

Each character class gains bonus epic feats according to the class description. These feats must be selected from the list of bonus epic feats for that class."

BTW. Where are the epic fighter bonus feats in ELH? I don't see any.
No, the Martial Monk evades pre-reqs, as per the entry on monk bonus feats in the PHB, or the SRD. They don't have to meet pre-reqs, the martial monk never changed this, so the Martial Monk can take any fighter bonus feat ignoring all pre-reqs.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2011, 01:05:34 AM »
Technically [Epic], while a restriction, isn't a prerequisite.
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Gattack

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2011, 01:14:48 AM »
Technically [Epic], while a restriction, isn't a prerequisite.
TECHNICALLY it is a prerequisite, as per the definition of prerequisite.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2011, 01:16:25 AM »
Technically [Epic], while a restriction, isn't a prerequisite.
TECHNICALLY it is a prerequisite, as per the definition of prerequisite.
You must be --- this tall to ride the monk.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2011, 01:17:40 AM »
Technically [Epic], while a restriction, isn't a prerequisite.
TECHNICALLY it is a prerequisite, as per the definition of prerequisite.

Is it listed in "Prerequisites"?

No?

Why then it isn't what the game defines as a prerequisite, now is it?


Quote
Prerequisites

Most

All epic feats (by definition) have [epic].  They wouldn't say "most" if [epic] were a prerequisite.
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My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
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Gattack

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2011, 01:30:52 AM »
Is it listed in "Prerequisites"?

No?

Why then it isn't what the game defines as a prerequisite, now is it?


Quote
Prerequisites

Most

All epic feats (by definition) have [epic].  They wouldn't say "most" if [epic] were a prerequisite.
Nah, Webster's on my side, especially since it says "normally required," which implies it's referring to things other than the base prereqs listed, or it would have worded it "A monk need not meet the listed prerequisites to take the feat."

Also, you do realize that, by the very definition of prerequisites, [epic] just states the being "epic" is a prereq, and so that was refering to prereqs other than the included "being epic."
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 01:32:31 AM by Gattack »

AleksanderTheGreat

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2011, 02:46:29 AM »
You can take epic feats from 21st level ONLY. 'Nuff said.
Quote from: Sephirothsword117
Quote from: Solo
Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.
I'm inclined to disagree. People work hard on there characters, there personality, back ground, appearance, so forth. No one wants there character that they have invested time, energy, thought, and probably emotion in to be killed because they didn't take strong enough feats or skills or spells or what have you.

Bauglir

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2011, 03:03:40 AM »
Also, it seems to be somewhat implied that Epic Feats aren't Feats. They're listed separately in statblocks, and you take an Epic feat in place of the feat you'd normally get. Yes, this is a stupid terminological difference, and not 100% certain, but as long as we're arguing about how to parse "prerequisite", I thought I'd throw that in there.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

Ras F

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2011, 03:34:39 AM »
This seems like a discussion for the TO boards.
Rejakor has already stated Martial Monk shenanigans would more than likely be barred from play.
As for the Jumplomancer, I believe Caedrus got his calculations wrong and only 1-2 people addressed it when it was originally pointed out, with most ignoring that and just getting on the bandwagon. Edit: heax being the original detractor, and feuertag also noting it's error at a later date. That took 2.3 years as well.

@ Rejakor: Gobbo's posted in prior comment.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 04:46:37 AM by Ras F »
Life gives you lemons? Then you better fucking learn Citromancy.

Tshern

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2011, 03:53:45 AM »
Technically [Epic], while a restriction, isn't a prerequisite.
TECHNICALLY it is a prerequisite, as per the definition of prerequisite.

Is it listed in "Prerequisites"?

No?

Why then it isn't what the game defines as a prerequisite, now is it?


Quote
Prerequisites

Most

All epic feats (by definition) have [epic].  They wouldn't say "most" if [epic] were a prerequisite.
Thank you, I saved a lot of time trying to explain this.

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Rejakor

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2011, 10:15:58 AM »
I had no idea Varags were CR 0.  How nice.

I'll be sure to use them as shock troops.  With Awl Pikes, probably.


Words of Creation isn't being allowed, so the sources allowed are a bit stricter than I thought.   Alphorns neither.

Probably just assume the 'most 3.5 material' bit isn't there and just use the sources listed... currently i'm thinking a NE Venerable Grey Elf Wizard as my main character, with Improved Familiar (Hippogriff) and Widen spell (1360' range fireballs?  Hell yes - that's outside longbow range).  Vaguely considering Wizard 5/Urpriest 1/MT 1 rather than just straight wizard.  Practiced Caster offsets the CL loss and 4th level spells aren't THAT important for what I want to do.  I lose Animate Dead but, mneh.

For my cohort, no idea.

One problem with this is that it makes me pretty MAD, as I need cha for leadership, int for wizard casting, and wis for urpriest casting.  And con for HP.

But y'know, no UA means no buyoff, so probably no necropolitan. 

The only other idea that appeals to me is pixie warlock, but i'm not sure if i'm happy (ab)using the spells as damage rules to do my eldritch blast to a unit of 300 men simultaneously.  It would be essentially unstoppable, though.  Natural greater invisibility is kind of lol.

As for epic feats - yeah, you don't get them from martial monk.  On a technicality.  You can still snag weapon supremacy and whatnot though.

Kajhera

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2011, 10:21:51 AM »
Er, Necropolitan doesn't have a level adjustment - you just lose a level, 1000xp, and 3000gp. It's kinda buyoff-by-default, so if that's what you meant by it not being allowed, ignore me.

Rejakor

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2011, 01:12:22 PM »
I don't think I will have been let to experience is a river it away so i'm still level 7.  So...

Ras F

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2011, 05:00:18 PM »
I had no idea Varags were CR 0.  How nice.

I'll be sure to use them as shock troops.  With Awl Pikes, probably.

CR 1 actually - and whatever you do, don't try to give them class levels, or they instantaneously explode into the realms of rule-breaker troops. ECL 3RHD+(LA 2+5+3+"-")

Be sure to double check and see if you can trade out their Weapon Focus (Scimitar) if you do go that route, as well as go for masterwork - those are even cheaper than their scimitars. I hadn't even considered Dragon Mag as an option, I may need to re-evaluate the creatures I've made at a later time...

Cheers.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 05:16:05 PM by Ras F »
Life gives you lemons? Then you better fucking learn Citromancy.

Rejakor

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2011, 02:04:09 PM »
Bump.

vilenatas

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2011, 02:38:30 PM »
Maybe not the most powerful overall, but what about a warchanter.  The 10th level ability would make even your level 1's have a monster base attack bonus and with ways to boost inspire courage you could also give some nice bonuses to hit/damage or just damage with dragonfire inspiration.

Rejakor

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Re: A Mighty Leader Of Armies
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2011, 04:50:55 PM »
Dragonfire Inspiration got disallowed (as it should be, it breaks the system in half, not that a orc on a horse with a lance already doesn't).

Level of my main guy is 7, so warchanter is suboptimal.

I went for a tiered cohort build.  So I have some 'fingers' to wiggle around on the battlefield.