Author Topic: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help  (Read 8455 times)

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geniussavant

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Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« on: March 16, 2011, 05:04:32 PM »
I've be tossing around a character idea for a PBP in my head for the past few days, and I can't seem to get the character to fulfil my ideas the way I want him to. So it is to the very brilliant members of the BG forums I turn to for some optimisation help.

Character creation rules
[spoiler]Starting level 7(unsure of starting XP)
35 point buy for stats
Feats: any (but leadership)
Race: max LA of +2(Buy-off allowed, but DM has yet to set our starting XP)
Books: 3.5/non-updated 3.0 Non-campaign specific, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, Dragon mag(on case-by-case basis), although homebrew is also allowed on a case-by-case basis, I would greatly prefer not to use it, I need sources for everything[/spoiler]

Requirements for the character idea
[spoiler]
  • Psionic(preferably erudite)
  • Very Independent
  • Vow of Poverty(w/ Sacred Vow)
  • Non-standard Race
[/spoiler]

Things I like, but don't have to have
Meaning things I could be convinced to otherwise not use/would sacrifice
[spoiler]
  • Race:kobold
  • Focused on damage per round/incapacitate the enemy quickly
[/spoiler]

Things that are just ideas
[spoiler]
  • Metamorphosis focused brawler
  • Energy X focused blaster
  • Apostle of Peace+Psychic Theurge(Highly unlikely)
  • dip into totemist+soul manifester(unlikely)
  • azure talent+pycarnum infusion pp generation
[/spoiler]

In summary, I'm looking for help creating a level 7 psion/erudite that has vow of poverty and can do at least decent damage, while still maintaining a great deal of self-sufficiency. Thanks in advanced for the help :D

I hope that this all makes sense
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 05:06:16 PM by geniussavant »
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Saeomon

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 05:37:09 PM »
I've always felt that a VoP Psion Uncarnate would be interesting.

"You think giving up your equipment is enough? Pssh...I gave up my BODY!"

geniussavant

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 05:43:14 PM »
In theory, that's kind of what I want. I'm going for the "My mind gives me everything I'll ever need or want", but loosing 4 manifester levels is a bullet I would rather not take... Any other way to do it? (preferably without LA as I still don't know how effective LA buy-off will be)
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Nunkuruji

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2011, 06:01:12 PM »
I've always felt that a VoP Psion Uncarnate would be interesting.

"You think giving up your equipment is enough? Pssh...I gave up my BODY!"

Mindborn from Untapped Potential, or even just being Unbodied, as well.

geniussavant

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2011, 06:17:36 PM »
The mindborn and the unbodied have too high an LA(+4 on each), as my DM has limited us to only 2, but I don't mind being corporeal, hell I guess if it really came to it, I could take a level or two of the ghost template...
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 07:01:27 PM »
There's a soulmeld in Magic of Incarnum you can grab via the Shape Soulmeld feat (phase cloak) that allows you to go ethereal every time you move more than 5' when you bind it to your shoulders (which you can when you manifest psionic bind chakra). Find a way to go ethereal while standing still (such as that one vestige...don't remember his name) and you'll have it without losing any manifester levels.

I'd also suggest worshiping an elder evil (going against the gods isn't evil, whatever WotC says), and maybe taking a level in ghost.

Also, swordsaged a bit.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

geniussavant

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2011, 07:21:17 PM »
The phase cloak is definitely worth, at the very least, looking into, but would have to wait until later in the game, as I need a manifester level of 15 to be able to open my shoulders chakra, unless there is a way to drop the augmentation cost by 6, or artificially boost my ML by 6(overchannel would help, but isn't enough) or maybe a combo of the two... As for worshipping an elder evil, I think that it's probably out of the question if I want to maintain my benefits from vow of poverty, Exalted alignment and all...
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2011, 07:33:17 PM »
The phase cloak is definitely worth, at the very least, looking into, but would have to wait until later in the game, as I need a manifester level of 15 to be able to open my shoulders chakra, unless there is a way to drop the augmentation cost by 6, or artificially boost my ML by 6(overchannel would help, but isn't enough) or maybe a combo of the two... As for worshipping an elder evil, I think that it's probably out of the question if I want to maintain my benefits from vow of poverty, Exalted alignment and all...
Elder evils are better than VoP in either case.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

geniussavant

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2011, 07:35:48 PM »
Elder evils are better than VoP in either case.

Then how do I become independent of items, while not completely gimping myself?
(yes, I know VoP isn't as good as items, but it's better than nothing)
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2011, 07:38:13 PM »
Elder evils are better than VoP in either case.

Then how do I become independent of items, while not completely gimping myself?
(yes, I know VoP isn't as good as items, but it's better than nothing)
You use your psionic powers to best advantage and supplement with soulmelds. Going psion/totemist/soul manifester will do you good.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

geniussavant

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2011, 07:41:14 PM »
But to do so would cost me precious MLs which I don't really want to loose, as this is for a PBP and I don't know how quickly I will be leveling... Is it really worth it?
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2011, 07:42:46 PM »
Soulmelds and incarnum in general are excessively handy, and VERY psi-friendly. And you only really need one incarnum class to pull off soul manifester, although totemist 2 is highly recommended.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

geniussavant

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 07:54:46 PM »
But if I go that way, I would loose 2 MLs, my question is, are soulmelds really that much better? I've never played with them before, so I lack the experience to say one way or the other. Out of curiosity, would it be out of line for me to ask the DM for an evil version of VoP, maybe something like Mentality of Arrogance->so arrogant that you refuse to use all but the most basic of items as you believe them all to be cursed/out to fail at the worst times, and from that arrogance you gain benefits similar to VoP...? Or as a Vow the the Elder Evils-> gain benefits similar to VoP but evil...? Then I could get the feats from EE, and still remain item independent without ML loss...

I really don't know, and am just tossing out ideas to be shot down or supported
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Endarire

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2011, 07:59:58 PM »
What about the savage progression ghost?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

KellKheraptis

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2011, 08:03:19 PM »
There is also always the option of really playing up the "Exalted" part by being a devoted psionicist (aka, an ARDENT), and then you only are out some pp for taking Uncarnate :)
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geniussavant

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2011, 08:18:15 PM »
What about the savage progression ghost?
Definitely an option, and if I go ghost, I'll most likely go VoP as incarnum and undead don't mix to my (limited) understanding

There is also always the option of really playing up the "Exalted" part by being a devoted psionicist (aka, an ARDENT), and then you only are out some pp for taking Uncarnate :)

But I would also be sacrificing powers known, as IIRC the ardent only gets somewhere around 22 if they take all 20 levels, not to mention I'd be loosing the 4 levels from uncarnate, so I would have even less powers known

Edit: Looking at uncarnate and SP ghost, ghost seems like the greater deal by far
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 08:21:44 PM by geniussavant »
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2011, 08:59:34 PM »
One of the big reasons VoP is rarely a good idea is that the abilities it gives you are bleh and the feats you can access are horrible for most characters, and all at the expense of the magic items most characters NEED to function at all but the first couple of levels.

The reason Elder Evils are better is because your feats are much better, and you can use the Dark Chaos Feat Swap to get whatever feats you want in their place. VoP characters don't have this option.

And there's a feat you can take as a ghost to give you access to soulmelds, if you like. Undead Meldshaping. And yes, soulmelds can definitely be worth 2 MLs for a lot of builds. Not all, but some. MLs are much easier to replace than CLs, since augmentation comes into play.

I'd suggest ghost savage progression/psion or ardent/totemist 2/soul manifester. Sure, you lose a few things, but it's amazing how much the right soulmelds and feats can boost you up.

VoP would definitely work if you can convince your DM to give you any feats you qualify for, especially with a manifesting/meldshaping character.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Rebel7284

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2011, 09:08:38 PM »
The reason Elder Evils are better is because your feats are much better, and you can use the Dark Chaos Feat Swap to get whatever feats you want in their place. VoP characters don't have this option.

Nitpick, technically both spells in the DCFS are chaotic, not evil. Therefore, a VoP character CAN use them RAW.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2011, 09:15:25 PM »
The reason Elder Evils are better is because your feats are much better, and you can use the Dark Chaos Feat Swap to get whatever feats you want in their place. VoP characters don't have this option.

Nitpick, technically both spells in the DCFS are chaotic, not evil. Therefore, a VoP character CAN use them RAW.
You'd be surprised at the number of DMs who go apeshit for one but not the other... At least, every one I've ever played with has.*




*Not representative of all DMs everywhere.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

geniussavant

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Re: Exalted Psionist, Plz Help
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2011, 09:35:51 PM »
One of the big reasons VoP is rarely a good idea is that the abilities it gives you are bleh and the feats you can access are horrible for most characters, and all at the expense of the magic items most characters NEED to function at all but the first couple of levels.

The reason Elder Evils are better is because your feats are much better, and you can use the Dark Chaos Feat Swap to get whatever feats you want in their place. VoP characters don't have this option.

I doubt that I will have access to DCFS, so I would most likely be stuck with the Vile feats it gives me...

And there's a feat you can take as a ghost to give you access to soulmelds, if you like. Undead Meldshaping.
As I said, a very limited experience with Incarnum. I'll look it up now to see how Undead Meldshaping works with the whole con -- thing

And yes, soulmelds can definitely be worth 2 MLs for a lot of builds. Not all, but some. MLs are much easier to replace than CLs, since augmentation comes into play.

What type of builds would it be good for? I'd love to see something that meshed well with the self-sufficient character idea I have, and incarnum seems to go really well with it from my limited understanding of it.

I'd suggest ghost savage progression/psion or ardent/totemist 2/soul manifester. Sure, you lose a few things, but it's amazing how much the right soulmelds and feats can boost you up.

Any suggestions on soulmelds if I go that route? Besides Phase Cloak...

VoP would definitely work if you can convince your DM to give you any feats you qualify for, especially with a manifesting/meldshaping character.

I just PMed the DM, so we'll see if he lets me swap out the feats, I also suggested that if something like any feat that I qualifed for was too much, that maybe just any from a subset, like any [psionic] feat. I'll let you know what he says...

Currently a SP ghost 2 + incarnum class 2+ erudite/psion 5 using LA buy-off(depending on starting exp) looks interesting and very self-sufficient. (eventually going SP ghost 2 + incarnum 2+ Erudite/psion 5+ Soul Manifester 10+ x 3)
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]