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Author Topic: Rich Burlew revisits his old work  (Read 8877 times)

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SorO_Lost

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Re: Rich Burlew revisits his old work
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2011, 06:45:42 PM »
Quote from: The_Mad_Linguist on March 14, 2011, 10:55:28 PM
I believe what he's trying to say is that "power creep" only counts if it increases your maximum power, rather than the power of a specific option.

Like, for example, giving monks full BAB isn't power creep, since there are still other classes that do the monk's stuff better even after the buff.
Ooooh.

Well I got a picture, but it looks like piscos's art right now.

Is he meaning only measure by the most powerful option? Because yes a few tweaks to the monk doesn't put him on the scale of a cleric, but every book with a monster or class certain increases Pun-Pun which in turn is the most powerful yard stick in D&D gaining more power.
Or.
Is he meaning ignore increasing one aspect. As in who cares if you gained access to Epic Spells, your BAB still sucks - Power creep would give both & all.  ???

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Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Prime32

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Re: Rich Burlew revisits his old work
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2011, 10:44:32 PM »
Rich obviously knows that spellcasters > all. He mentioned it multiple times in the thread, and OotS makes frequent references to the disparity. ("I am a druid! I have class features more powerful than your entire class!", "As if it is OUR fault that they chose a class not capable of doing everything.")
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My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: Rich Burlew revisits his old work
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2011, 03:23:32 AM »
I think hes referring to SPECIFIC power creep, not in terms of the whole game. Options have gotten stronger due to surplus materials, Shock Trooper might not have pumped the WHOLE game, but it did tremendously augment melee capability. Warlock might be small fry in the overall scheme of things, but it added to the number of ways you could fly at will at earlier levels.
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[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
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Bloody Initiate

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Re: Rich Burlew revisits his old work
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2011, 02:19:10 PM »
There's obviously power creep in any game that receives continuous support. More options -> more power and if they DON'T come with more then people won't buy them. MTG does the same thing. If people can't keep upgrading they stop playing. Simple as that (Anyone heard of Phantom Dust?) So to continue keeping people interested you have to keep introducing things they couldn't do before. In all cases the "vanilla" options that were the original material almost always gets left behind.

The mistake WotC made was uneven support. Instead of all options gaining power with each supplement, some options received no support, some got enough to scrape off for themselves, and casters received continuous support in every single supplement released.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 03:26:46 PM by Bloody Initiate »
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Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Rich Burlew revisits his old work
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2011, 02:33:51 PM »
Quote from: Bloody Initiate on March 16, 2011, 02:19:10 PM
There's obviously power creep in any game that receives continuous support. More options -> more power and if they DON'T come with more than people won't buy them. MTG does the same thing. If people can't keep upgrading they stop playing. Simple as that (Anyone heard of Phantom Dust?) So to continue keeping people interested you have to keep introducing things they couldn't do before. In all cases the "vanilla" options that were the original material almost always gets left behind.

The mistake WotC made was uneven support. Instead of all options gaining power with each supplement, some options received no support, some got enough to scrape off for themselves, and casters received continuous support in every single supplement released.



You know, after reading your post I was going to say that ToB didn't supported casters... but then  I remembered the Ruby Knight Vindicator and Jade phoenix mage, which are excellent prestige classes for casters (an specific archetype true, but still it empowers them)  :banghead

It seems you are right...

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