Author Topic: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!  (Read 3889 times)

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Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« on: July 17, 2008, 12:56:38 PM »
I am about to enter play with a Solamnic Knight in a 3.5 DragonLance game, and I would like some help to trick her out to kick as much ass as possible. I can use any 3.5 book that is not tied to a specific campaign setting but the Doragon Lance CS, and I will be playing the PC from lvl 1 to 20.

I would like my knight function as a divine gish, channelling spells and buffing herself to make the most of her combat abilities, while also retaining at least some competance at control magic. The rest of the party will consist of a divner and two melee clerics.

The build:

Race: Human         

Stats (bonuspoint form high levels):
Str: 14
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 8
Wis: 12
Cha: 16 (+1 at lvl 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20)

Deity: Kiri-Jolith

Level progression and feats:

-1: Favoured Soul 1 Feat (Honor-bound), racial bonus feat (Endurance)
-2: Favoured Soul 2
-3: Favoured Soul 3 Feat (Improved Initiative), bonus feats (proficiency & focus: longsword)
-4: Favoured Soul 4
-5: Favoured Soul 5 Energy resistance 10 (Fire)
-6: Ordained Champion 1 Feat (Power Attack)
-7: Ordained Champion 2 Bonus feat (Diehard)
-8: Ordained Champion 3
-9: Knight of the Crown 1 Feat (Leadership)
-10: Knight of the Sword 1
-11: Knight of the Sword 2
-12: Knight of the Sword 3 Feat (Mounted Combat)
-13: Knight of the Rose 1
-14: Knight of the Rose 2
-15: Knight of the Rose 3 Feat (Empower Spell)
-16: Knight of the Rose 4
-17: Knight of the Rose 5
-18: Knight of the Rose 6 Feat (DMM: Empower Spell)
-19: Knight of the Rose 7
-20: Knight of the Rose 8

Stats at level 20:

BAB: 17

Base saves (inc. stat mods & divine grace)
- Fort: 18 (24)
- Ref: 8 (14)
- Will: 16 (22)

Caster Level: 18

I especially like the great synergy I get with my high charisma in this build, as cha adds to my saves, leadership, smiting, turn undead and spellcasting... in other words as well as everything I do. As this will be my first divine caster in almost five years, I would be surprised if I had not missed a lot of tweaks and cool abilies, and I would therefore like some input as to how I can make this character stronger.

Also, I would like some suggestions as to what kind of cohort my party need? It would seem that I have everything already.

I hope to get replies to this, as I have already invested a significant amount of time into this build. Thankls in advance.

EDIT: I should note that the following feats are prereqs: Honor-Bound, Endurance, Diehard, Leadership and Mounted Combat.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 12:59:05 PM by E-mail »

AfterCrescent

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2008, 09:09:25 PM »
Why a Favored Soul base?
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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2008, 12:26:14 AM »
Why a Favored Soul base?

I chose the favored soul because it benefits greatly from a high charisma score, and because the build has great synergy with that stat. I recon that by choosing a cleric as base I could gain five more turn undead levels, two domains and associated powers/bonus feats and a more versatile caster base, but by choosing favored soul and boosting cha I get better synergy on smiting, turn undead (and child abilities), leadership and divine grace. Also I would get more slots to burn on channel spell and divine bulwark. It just struck me as the optimal way to go.

If I wouldnt get turn undead anyway thrugh the levels in the Knight of the Sword, I would definately have gone cleric though.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 12:28:10 AM by E-mail »

Blade2718

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2008, 02:26:23 AM »
There's updated PrCs for Solamnic Knights in Knightly Orders of Ansalon.  I don't think they're necessarily better, but might be food for thought.  I think the biggest change was that you don't have to have levels in the previous Order to join the next one.

Ordained Champion (I'm guessing OC of Kiri-Jolith) is a nice touch; now you don't have to learn many War spells.  I'd recommend getting Touch of Healing so you won't have to keep as many spell slots around for healing.  Now you can use your slots for utility and non-War buffs.  Holy Warrior is another good reserve feat to have, and Law Devotion rocks.

The sad aspect of your build is that Cleric domains would give you a huge boost to your feat progression, when you start trading at OC 1.

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2008, 02:53:27 AM »
Yeah, I know that cleric levels would benefit me greatly, as just a single extra feat would mean that I could go down the DMM persist route, but the charisma synergy I get in this build is just too good to give up yet. The absolutely best way to go would be to find an early entry PrC at level 5 that granted me an extra domain for which power I could get a bonus feat, but sadly I have no knowledge of such a PrC.

The updated Knight classes sounds good though, I will definately try to get a look at that book when I get the chance. If just I can accelrate my build a single level I could squeeze something with a domain in somewhere.

And jep, Im planning on making this char an OC of Kiri-Jolith. I just have to prepare a really good presentation of the PrC for my DM if he is to let it fly, as he absolutely loves banning PrCs that he dosent feel belong in DL.

AfterCrescent

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2008, 03:08:06 AM »
Church Inquisitor gives you the inquisition domain... :D
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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2008, 03:38:54 AM »
Church Inquisitor gives you the inquisition domain... :D

AfterCrescent

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2008, 03:48:49 AM »
level 18 may be late in the game, but if you make it there and play your way up, by level 18, when you hit all those persistent buffs... Your power will shoot up even further. Just remember to invest in rings of counterspells with dispel and greater dispel magic. Also get a ring of enduring arcana from Complete Mage (it gives your spells +4 to the dispel DC when someone tries to dispel it)
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Clerics just wake up one morning and decide they need to kick ass, and it needs to be kicked NOW. ~veekie

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2008, 04:03:00 AM »
By the way, if your GM allows retraining, you might be better off getting combat-helping feats at 12 and 15, and then retraining for extend and persistent at 16 and 17.  One of the things I hate about DMM: Persist is that you're stuck with subpar feats for a long time before you get any use out of them.

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2008, 03:13:39 AM »
If you are the party's primary source of healing, I still think you should have Touch of Healing.

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2008, 06:21:39 AM »
Re-training is unfortunately not an option, but I definately think that I can make use of persist and expend spell long before I get DMM. Persisted first level spells are for instance avaliable to me as soon as I reach level 16.

And I will not be the only be the only scource of healing, as the party will consist of two clerics in addition to my FS, one of which will go straight cleric until he reaches the Solamnic Knight PrC, and one that will go fighter 4 to get weapon spec. before he goes cleric X and tumbles down the path of the Warpriest. The last party member will be a diviner of an unknown build, but wizards are not known to require much healing anyway. As long as we can manage to keep our own characters going I figure that we cant do too bad, and I know that mine will be capable of helping herself. Also, I dont know where I could squeeze in such a feat, as I have none left to spare.

Also, IF we got to the point where we needed extra healing, there will at least be two characters with leadership in the party before level 10, at which point I at least consider getting a cloistered cleric as my personal pet, most likely optimized for sneakiness and occational extra healing.

Neat handbook you got there by the way, aftercrescent.

EDIT:

Oh, and I just thought about another thing regarding leadership, does anyone know any optimal flying mounts that I can attract? Ive never had the feat before, so I completely forgot that option. Ideally I would like a dragon old enough to get spell resistance, but that may take a little longer than Im willing to wait. What LD score and level would I need to get, say, a young adult brass dragon?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 07:40:25 AM by E-mail »

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2008, 01:57:18 AM »
This is true.  And lesser vigor is eligible for Persistent anyway.  Draconomicon has rules for dragon mounts.  A juvenile brass requires a Leadership score of 17, 14 with the feat Dragon Cohort.

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2008, 09:16:01 AM »
An extra note to those who might read this thread to get ideas and inspiration for their own solamnic knights; do not touch the downgraded knight classes in Knightly Orders of Ansalon! They are modified to greatly emphazise the fighter aspect of the knights through full BAB, d10 HD and then some minor flavor stuff that makes you a fighter/paladin (crown), a fighter/bard (rose) or a fighter/cleric (sword). Apart from the knight of the sword that gets a measily 3 caster levels over PrC 10 levels, they dont even get to cast spells or turn undead. These levels will place your knight on a tier 5 position tops if you pick them up, but as the original knight classes from the CS will land you on tier 1 or 2 (an estimation from my side) if you build them right, there is simply no reason not to use them over the new weaker classes. Thanks for the heads up though, it might as well have been the other way around.

And now that I am posting, I might as well throw up my list of selected spells:

0th:
Create Water
Cure Minor Wounds
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Mending
Purify Food and Drink
Resistance
Light
Detect Poison

1st:
Cure Light Wounds (replace with Lesser Vigor at a later level)
Protection from Evil
Obscuring Mist
Divine Favour
Resurgence
Command

Domain spells:
Magic Weapon (Taken as a normal spell first to comply with Ordained Champion prereqs, then swapped for a non domain spell once the War domain is accessed)
Detect Chaos

2nd:
Exarcation
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Cure Moderate Wounds
Eagles Splendour
Bears Endurance
Owls Wisdom

Domain spells:
Spiritual Weapon
Zone of Truth (Taken as a normal spell first to comply with Church Inquisitor prereqs, then swapped for a non domain spell once the Inquisition domain is accessed)

3rd:
Magic Circle against Evil
Inflict Serious Wounds
Cure Serious Wounds
Resist Energy, Mass
Bestow Curse
Dispel Magic

Domain spells:
Detect Thoughts
Magic Vestiment

4th:
Inflict Critical Wounds
Cure Critical Wounds
Freedom of Movement
Air Walk*
Death Ward
Magic Weapon, Greater

Domain spells:
Discern Lies
Divine Power

5th:
Righteous Might
Wall of Stone
Plane Shift
Surge of Fortune
Spell Resistance
Mark of Justice

Domain spells:
True Seeing
Flame Strike

6th:
Supirior Resistance
Forbddance
Harm
Heal
Energy Immunity
Dispel Magic, Greater

Domain spells:
Geas/Quest
Blade Barrier

7th:
Destruction
Holy Word
Control Weather
Ethereal Jaunt
Scrying, Greater

Domain spells:
Dictum
Power Word: Bind

8th:
Earthquake
Holy Aura
Greater Spell Immunity
Summon Monster VII

Domain spells:
Power Word: Stun
Shield of Law

9th:
Visage of the Deity, Greater
Gate
Miracle

Domain spells:
Imprisonment
Power Word: Kill

There is one thing I need to make sure that I unterstand correct; when a Favored Soul gets acces to a domain, the spells from that domain is added to my spells known list, right? Otherwise I will have to revise my spell selection.

EDIT: And from what book can I get that Called armor enhancement? It is EXACTLY what I need to negotiate my DMs harsh houserules regarding armor.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 10:05:30 AM by E-mail »

DetectiveJabsco

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2008, 10:09:01 AM »
I'm not sure about your party but if you have a Psion, they could use Psychic Reformation on you so you can retrain feats.

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2008, 11:04:28 PM »
When you, a Favored Soul, gain domain access, you merely add them to your list of spells to choose from, not your Spells Known.

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2008, 07:28:10 AM »
When you, a Favored Soul, gain domain access, you merely add them to your list of spells to choose from, not your Spells Known.

Thought so. New spells known list:

0th:
Create Water
Cure Minor Wounds
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Mending
Purify Food and Drink
Resistance
Light
Detect Poison

1st:
Cure Light Wounds (replace with Lesser Vigor at a later level)
Protection from Evil
Obscuring Mist
Divine Favour
Command
Magic Weapon

2nd:
Exarcation
Cure Moderate Wounds
Eagles Splendour
Bears Endurance
Owls Wisdom
Zone of Truth

3rd:
Inflict Serious Wounds
Cure Serious Wounds
Resist Energy, Mass
Bestow Curse
Dispel Magic
Magic Vestiment

4th:
Inflict Critical Wounds
Cure Critical Wounds
Freedom of Movement
Death Ward
Magic Weapon, Greater
Divine Power

5th:
Righteous Might
Wall of Stone
Plane Shift
Surge of Fortune
Spell Resistance
True Seeing

6th:
Supirior Resistance
Forbddance
Harm
Heal
Energy Immunity
Dispel Magic, Greater

7th:
Destruction
Holy Word
Control Weather
Ethereal Jaunt
Scrying, Greater

8th:
Earthquake
Holy Aura
Greater Spell Immunity
Power Word: Stun

9th:
Visage of the Deity, Greater
Gate
Miracle

I had a hard time choosing Greater Visage of the Deity over Power Word: Kill, but in the end I chose Visage because I thought that it would be a good spell to persist. Miracle takes care of all the other things that I couldnt fit in, such as ressurecting ect.

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2008, 09:23:23 AM »
If you can find a way to get True Believer out of Complete Divine, one level in Pious Templar gives you Mettle, it does give you a lost in CL though.  You can make up that by taking it in place of Knight of the Crown since KotC doesn't give you Cl at all either.   One level of Contemplative somewhere in there would give you another domain to get spells with.  If you can fit Skill Focus - Knowledge Religion in, then take two levels of Divine Oracle, two levels gives you another domain and evasion in plate.

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Re: Help me min/max my Solamnic Knight (Dragon Lance CS)!
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2008, 11:49:06 AM »
If you can find a way to get True Believer out of Complete Divine, one level in Pious Templar gives you Mettle, it does give you a lost in CL though.  You can make up that by taking it in place of Knight of the Crown since KotC doesn't give you Cl at all either.   One level of Contemplative somewhere in there would give you another domain to get spells with.  If you can fit Skill Focus - Knowledge Religion in, then take two levels of Divine Oracle, two levels gives you another domain and evasion in plate.

Can't give up the level of  Crown. It is a prerequisite for the Sword and thus the Rose.  Though i think he could argue about presidents set in the book to get it, by the rules as given he has to have that 1 level.
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