Author Topic: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)  (Read 4206 times)

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willpower

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To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« on: February 25, 2011, 01:35:46 PM »
I am making a new Human Duskblade at 17th level for a game. I decided on this more than my previous ideas. I used all the best conventional wisdom in creating him (aside from not). The only thing I didn't choose to do was give him a familiar via the Obtain Familiar feat, as I never really see the use of a familiar typically. (I know I can cast touch through them, but don't see much point unless I want to lose my familiar, and I know they give a small bonus to a few skills, or a feat, but unless one gave Evasion, I fail to see the extreme value in that either.)

The big thing I am wondering about is reach. I have Arcane Disciple, (and am struggling between the Strength and Wrath domains.) So I will be able to grow big, though not very often per day based on RAW. (Says they can only be used once per day, Though I still know them so should be able to cast from scrolls and such) In any case, I am prepared to give him a spiked chain for a weapon, however I am REALLY wanting to give him a sword instead. I know I can easily just use a sword instead of the chain, but what I am wondering is how much I will be gimping myself. I can easily see that I will probably be not threatening as many people so I will not be able to channel as many. So I can see how it will gimp me, I just don't know to what extent that will. Please convince me to keep the Spiked Chain, unless you don't feel it is essential. 

CantripN

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2011, 01:38:22 PM »
Use a Spinning Sword (Secrets of Sarlona) for a Reach Sword. Also, Arcane Disciple (Hero Domain might be nice), and some way of getting higher level spells.
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weenog

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2011, 01:55:06 PM »
Take a look through the monster manual at the stuff in the mid and high teens for CR.  Pay particular attention to size.  You're Large and you've got 10' reach?  Great, you're still going to be suffering an AoO on the way in, and probably grabbed with a grapple check you can't beat so you don't get to use your sword anyway.  +1 size from Medium and an adjacent-only weapon isn't going to cut it at that level, you need to put in more effort if you want not to be outclassed in the reach department.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 01:57:25 PM by weenog »
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Pimpforged

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2011, 02:55:05 PM »
If your DM will let you use extra spell to pick up spells not on your list, pick up Giant Size ftw

bearsarebrown

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2011, 03:07:43 PM »
17th level Duskblades don't have high enough spells for Giant Size iirc. But always get reach. Always.

And as CantripN said, Spinning Sword. Or just use a Spiked Chain and call it a sword because who cares.

Bloody Initiate

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2011, 09:58:43 PM »
Have you checked out the Duskblade Handbook?

Also, the creators of the Duskblade kinda dropped the ball after 13th level. I recommend jumping out of the class after 13th level into something that expands your spell list. Recommendations for this are further into the Handbook thread.
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veekie

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2011, 10:37:38 PM »
As for the Familiar, if you got the feat to spare, consider the benefits of another character with your BAB. Granted, you'd need Improved Familiar for one to be much good with attacking, but if you bought some UMD, they can be used to fire wands.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2011, 11:07:52 PM »
Reach. Get it.

If you've got feats to spare, there are several (and a trait or two) that can improve your reach. Then that can be enhanced using spells.

Totally worth it.
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ninjarabbit

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2011, 11:12:09 PM »
You can get yourself an eternal wand with enlarge person (or any other low level arcane spell) on it and save yourself the feat for arcane disciple.

The spiked chain is nice too for tripping and disarming, though at level 17 the number of enemies you'll be able to do that to is limited. Reach is always worth it, especially for a duskblade. Even if you don't go with a spiked chain I would strongly recommend getting a reach weapon with armor spikes/bladed gauntlets.

stranglebat

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2011, 01:34:38 AM »
You could just say your spiked chain is like Ivy's sword from Soul Calibur. Basically the same principle as the spiked chain in D&D. Also look at Inhuman Reach from LoM for another 5ft reach.

Arcane Disciple Just always seemed lack luster to me for Classes that don't have 1-9 lvl spells.

The Familiar gets your BAB and Half your HP. Imp familiar gives you a good list to choose from, you can score a flanking buddy (Blink Dog is pretty good for that) or a Mount or if you get ranks in UMD a little mobile turret. Don't forget some of them also have nice debuffs like the Dust Mephit's AC reducing breath attack. Or you can even just pick up your own mini powerhouse
From Familiar guide
Earth/Salt Mephit MM: Now these are worth it! They get power attack and toughness. Consult with your DM if toughness adds hit points to your familiar's HP total. Earth mephits get change size 1/hour, which gives it even more strength, making them superior for fighting classes, such as Hexblades and Duskblades. Salt mephits give even greater versatility, being able to cast glitterdust 1/hour. Also these guys being outsiders have Martial weapon proficiency so arm them with a glavie and using your BAB they should be able to get a decent power attack off

willpower

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2011, 03:11:44 AM »
If your DM will let you use extra spell to pick up spells not on your list, pick up Giant Size ftw

Ya that spell is freaking awesome... unfortunately, from what I haveread it seems to be the only size increasing spell that doesn't increase the size of your weapons... so that causes issues.

willpower

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2011, 03:24:11 AM »
You could just say your spiked chain is like Ivy's sword from Soul Calibur. Basically the same principle as the spiked chain in D&D. Also look at Inhuman Reach from LoM for another 5ft reach.

Arcane Disciple Just always seemed lack luster to me for Classes that don't have 1-9 lvl spells.

The Familiar gets your BAB and Half your HP. Imp familiar gives you a good list to choose from, you can score a flanking buddy (Blink Dog is pretty good for that) or a Mount or if you get ranks in UMD a little mobile turret. Don't forget some of them also have nice debuffs like the Dust Mephit's AC reducing breath attack. Or you can even just pick up your own mini powerhouse
From Familiar guide
Earth/Salt Mephit MM: Now these are worth it! They get power attack and toughness. Consult with your DM if toughness adds hit points to your familiar's HP total. Earth mephits get change size 1/hour, which gives it even more strength, making them superior for fighting classes, such as Hexblades and Duskblades. Salt mephits give even greater versatility, being able to cast glitterdust 1/hour. Also these guys being outsiders have Martial weapon proficiency so arm them with a glavie and using your BAB they should be able to get a decent power attack off

K, You're starting to convince me on familiars... already decided on keeping the spiked chain. Imagined my char using it like Jackie Chan uses a rope weapon. The mini I want to use for my character has a sword is one ofthe main reasons I wanted to keep the sword. Thought of a good way to incorporate the chain though, and with the ideas here, I don't see why I can't just add the chain to the base of the sword and call the swod itsmain spike for damage. Call it a Chain Sword, hehe.

bearsarebrown

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2011, 03:33:06 AM »
Why is everyone ignoring the Spinning Sword suggestion!?  ??? :shakefist

Bloody Initiate

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2011, 03:37:12 AM »
Why is everyone ignoring the Spinning Sword suggestion!?  ??? :shakefist

Secrets of Sarlona is one of the few Eberron books I lack  :(
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 05:41:22 AM by Bloody Initiate »
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stranglebat

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2011, 05:11:13 AM »
It's a good suggestion but alot of DMs don't allow Campaign specific content or books you/they don't have. Sad but true
So thats why i suggested Ivy's sword, does the same thing as a spiked chain just a different description maybe its easier for some DMs to swallow

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2011, 02:31:41 PM »
If your DM will let you use extra spell to pick up spells not on your list, pick up Giant Size ftw

Ya that spell is freaking awesome... unfortunately, from what I haveread it seems to be the only size increasing spell that doesn't increase the size of your weapons... so that causes issues.

That's easily remedied by giving your weapon the Sizing enchantment - that way it can be any size you want, whenever you want. BTW, I'd totally go for a familiar, it sooo helps with the action economy: another very, very important thing at high levels. Take a familiar that can speak and UMD, and you have doubled your Wand/Scroll/Staff usage. Also, Improved Familiar is actually nice for Duskblades (I like Beguilers, little creatures with constant True Seeing and Multiattack, can even wield weapons with their tail).

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2011, 03:54:55 PM »
(I like Beguilers, little creatures with constant True Seeing and Multiattack, can even wield weapons with their tail).
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willpower

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2011, 01:08:47 AM »
If your DM will let you use extra spell to pick up spells not on your list, pick up Giant Size ftw

Ya that spell is freaking awesome... unfortunately, from what I haveread it seems to be the only size increasing spell that doesn't increase the size of your weapons... so that causes issues.

That's easily remedied by giving your weapon the Sizing enchantment - that way it can be any size you want, whenever you want. BTW, I'd totally go for a familiar, it sooo helps with the action economy: another very, very important thing at high levels. Take a familiar that can speak and UMD, and you have doubled your Wand/Scroll/Staff usage. Also, Improved Familiar is actually nice for Duskblades (I like Beguilers, little creatures with constant True Seeing and Multiattack, can even wield weapons with their tail).

Where is the Beguiler located? As in what book. I know of the class, but not the creature.  I was kinda thinking of getting a famiiliar I could use as a Mount, but as a human it doesn't leave a lot of choices. I think I can ride a hyppogriff, but I wasn't thinking alongthose lines. I am not sure if I can ride a a Krenshar or a Winter Wolf.I think both are large though, so maybe.

CantripN

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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2011, 03:46:53 AM »
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Re: To Reach or not to Reach (Duskblade help)
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2011, 12:18:25 PM »
Any way to add Thunderlance to the spell list? Then you can Quick Cast it and get easy 20 ft reach that can be adjusted as a free action if you must strike adjacent. Also, Int to hit and damage instead of strength would give more favorable ability score choices. And it's force damage, so DR/incorporeality aren't nuisances in the slightest.
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