Arcane Swordsage ACF

[TheChrisWaits]

I see a lot of praise for the unarmed Swordsage, but I never see any mention for the spellcasting variant. Even if limited to the types of spells in the description, they have access to a lot of buffs and other very useful spells, including Time Stop(!). Is this variant just not worth it, too good, or does it deserve more attention?

[Soda]

Is this variant just not worth it, too good, or does it deserve more attention?

[Callix]

There's a CO consensus that Arcane Swordsage is:
1. So brokenly good that it should never even be mentioned without good reason
2. Fulfilling a role (Dex-based gish) that has several other ways to be accomplished, and so has no good reason to be used.

Sometimes, self-regulation works. Even amongst munchkins like us.

[Akalsaris]

Are these actual, detailed ACF's, or the possible variants listed on pg. 20 of the ToB (the swordsage section)?

[JaronK]

They're possible varients.  The Unarmed Varient is pretty straightforward (and quite respectable), but the caster one is very poorly thought out and it really shows.

JaronK

[Hallack]

Yep, I was looking at the Arcane variant and it is very vague.  Are they saying get a number of spells equal to number of maneuvers known/prepared (I suspect this is the case)?  Are these spells then usable under the same mechanics as maneuvers?  ie once per encounter (outside of adaptive style).  Only 12 readied 'spells' at level 20 would make such pretty much necessary.

Or are they saying give a wizard or sorcerer type progression and usage?

This later type would certainly make for an interesting 'in' for shadowcraft mage if a DM would allow it hehe.

[RobbyPants]

Or are they saying give a wizard or sorcerer type progression and usage?

This is something I've often thought about.  I saw a thread about this over a year ago on the WotC forums, but I don't remember how well it worked out.

[Akalsaris]

I think that WoTC might have been intentionally vague so that the GM can feel free to make his own decisions about how to adapt the swordsage

If I were to adapt the swordsage into an arcane character, it would probably have a very limited and set spell like, much like the warmage or shugenja - and I mention shugenja only because splitting its spell list into different orders is quite similar to the swordsage's different disciplines. 

[Hallack]

After looking into it more (finding related old discussions) I see that this variant is generally avoided due to general possible abuse. 

It would likely take a good bit of DM fiat and communication between player/DM to have this variant work well within a campaign.

Certainly could be interesting and fun to play but the same is true for just the standard Swordsages (or other ToB) classes.