Author Topic: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil  (Read 11034 times)

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Sunic_Flames

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2011, 11:28:01 AM »
At least it has Flurry of Blows. You know, since it's fucked anyways.
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snakeman830

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2011, 11:55:10 AM »
Touch of Golden Ice is the only thing I can see that might possibly sorta work.  It's not a poison, so poison immunity doesn't work against it.  It's not HP damage, so regeneration doesn't stop it.

That said, Complete Champion does have a spell in it that lets a natural weapon count as either Silver or Cold Iron for overcoming DR (and explicitly can be cast twice to get both effects on the same weapon).
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lans

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2011, 12:06:29 PM »
The cornugon hits him less than 50% of the time with the shock trooper, and with out it the monk does 21 avg instead of 30.
[...]
Still a very good chance of him failing, and bearded devils pretty much just give the cornugon flanking  bonuses.
[...]
Depends if Grafts really count as material possessions.
the devil has 172 hit points and 35 ac, which means that it will take the monk forever to kill it.
AC is only 32, the Cornugon is flat footed due to the monks invisibility or blink from the invisible fist varient.
Quote
and if the cornugon simply flies above the monk, then attacks and next round attacks and flies away, it will grind the monk to death; remember, all it takes is one attack to hit to trigger a dc 27 fort save or stun to end this fight (39-9-2 -> 28 ac).
Monk has a 50% miss chance due to invisopower or blink.

Quote
failing what? he summons another devil no matter what, it's just random which type he can summon, nameley 50% lemure/bearded, 30% barbed, 20% horned.
The barbed is 35% chance, so unless the total adds up to over a hundred he chooses what he tries to summon and then sees if he is sucessful.

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and you cannot even get a graft without gold, which you cannot have with vop.
You get the graft or symbiote, then you take VOP.

Quote
btw: this is not even factoring in the cornugon's treasure which could be used for steadfast boots to automatically trigger an attack every time the monk charges the horned devil.
You don't get AOO aginst foes with concealment I believe. Lets for sake of discussion say this cornugon spent his money on magic beans, that he thought grew into a magical beanstalk to a land full of treasure.

Not to mention that unless the monk has silver and good unarmed attacks, the devil can just teleport away
Holy strike and Silver Fang feat do this.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 12:09:40 PM by lans »
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2011, 12:10:32 PM »
Azurin with Sapphire Fist, Ability Focus, Fist of the Heavens, Vow of Non Violence and a Wisdom of 22 has a Stunning Fist DC of 32. You can do this 12 times per day and 3 times per round. Very good chance the Horned Devil doesn't make the save with his Fort +16. Use Ring The Golden Bell to do this from over 110ft away and you should have at least two rounds of full attacks before you worry about being Stunned.

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2011, 12:18:49 PM »
Azurin with Sapphire Fist, Ability Focus, Fist of the Heavens, Vow of Non Violence and a Wisdom of 22 has a Stunning Fist DC of 32. You can do this 12 times per day and 3 times per round. Very good chance the Horned Devil doesn't make the save with his Fort +16. Use Ring The Golden Bell to do this from over 110ft away and you should have at least two rounds of full attacks before you worry about being Stunned.

Stunning fist can only be used 1/round
I'm pretty sure the monk doesn't have a chance in this scenario unless he gets ridiculously lucky

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2011, 12:32:46 PM »
AC is only 32, the Cornugon is flat footed due to the monks invisibility or blink from the invisible fist varient.

Spot check passes on a negative 3.

And again, Diplomacy to offer the Cornugon a Flurry of Blows. It's the only way.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2011, 12:35:03 PM »
@Stunning Fist, color me embarrassed. Welp, it's a start. You'll get two chances to Stun before the Devil gets into melee range. When it's stunned you grab the Spiked Chain from it's body.

Eh, it's a start.

lans

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2011, 12:37:56 PM »
AC is only 32, the Cornugon is flat footed due to the monks invisibility or blink from the invisible fist varient.

Spot check passes on a negative 3.
That just lets him know which square he's in. He still suffers the penalties associated with being attacked/attacking an invisible opponent.
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Kajhera

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2011, 12:38:37 PM »
There are uglier CR 16 monsters to use the diplomacy option on.

The build I currently have in mind violates so many hallowed principles of character design it worries me.

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2011, 12:44:36 PM »
Azurin with Sapphire Fist, Ability Focus, Fist of the Heavens, Vow of Non Violence and a Wisdom of 22 has a Stunning Fist DC of 32. You can do this 12 times per day and 3 times per round. Very good chance the Horned Devil doesn't make the save with his Fort +16. Use Ring The Golden Bell to do this from over 110ft away and you should have at least two rounds of full attacks before you worry about being Stunned.

Only if the devil is on the ground or if the monk has maneuverability of good or better. If it's less, the monk has to move while flying, and cannot do full-attacks. This is also true for the devil, though, but due to its' superior reach, flying circles in air is probably beneficial. Especially considering that Tumbling has to be done with normal movement, and flying doesn't count.

Also, the Devil trips at +14, against the monk's strength. The AoO doesn't matter since the devil has longer reach. Doing the feat-swap from Fiendish Codex II, he could even have improved trip. Trip-locking the monk shouldn't be too hard, as we're probably looking at a modifier 10 higher, and each trip attack that hits will still proc stun as normal.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2011, 12:48:09 PM »
Tumbling has to be done with normal movement, and flying doesn't count.
Rule Compendium explicitly states you can Tumble while airborne. And hopefully the Monk doesn't give the Devil a chance to attack. Otherwise, as you said, he's screwed.

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2011, 03:11:07 PM »
Saint Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Monk 9 / Fist of the Forest 1 - Spam your breath weapon with Electricity (no resistance or immunity), entangling exhalation of course.  Pump your CON as high as possible to help with HP, AC and save vs. stunning.  Saint's DR and fast healing will certainly help survivability a bit.

Edit:  Actually, I think the devil's weapons might bypass the DR.  But still a useful template thanks to its other goodies.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 03:16:31 PM by Ithamar »
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zugschef

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2011, 03:16:24 PM »
Saint Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Monk 9 / Fist of the Forest 1 - Spam your breath weapon with Electricity (no resistance or immunity), entangling exhalation of course.  Pump your CON as high as possible to help with HP, AC and save vs. stunning.  Saint's DR and fast healing will certainly help survivability a bit.
yeah, that could actually work...

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2011, 03:32:40 PM »
There is a rapid stunning fist feat. . . just saying.

I think the best way is to go for something like a flying invisible pouncing monk.
So human might be out.
Maybe dragonborn or any other non LA race to begin with.
Shocktrooper and pounce sound pretty good. I'm not sure if enough feats can be squeezed in.
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Ithamar

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2011, 03:40:12 PM »
Dragonborn (Wings) Water Orc Monk 4 / Orc Paragon 3 / Fist of the Forest 3 / Other Useful PrC 2

Wield a glaive for reach and decent damage output, Shocktrooper, etc.
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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2011, 03:41:13 PM »
Saint Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Monk 9 / Fist of the Forest 1 - Spam your breath weapon with Electricity (no resistance or immunity), entangling exhalation of course.  Pump your CON as high as possible to help with HP, AC and save vs. stunning.  Saint's DR and fast healing will certainly help survivability a bit.

Saint DR is overcome by evil, so DR is irrelevant, Fast Healing is 4 or 5 depending on LA buyoff and is not enough to matter in combat, Entangling Exhalation will only prevent it from moving and it still has a longer reach than you, so you're just going to be trading attacks with it. It can also just teleport out if it wants to, It just needs to pass a concentration check that it auto-succeeds on.

If you replace saint with feral + something else to boost con you might have a shot depending on who's playing the devil

Ithamar

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2011, 03:44:02 PM »
Yeah, I edited the bit about DR being irrelevant.   Saint does give +2 CON & WIS, and gives you WIS to AC a 2nd time.  So you can make your build wholly WIS & CON dependent, hopefully making the devil need a natural 20 to hit.  Your breath weapon has decent range, so you can blast it for at least 1 round before it gets to you.

But yeah, either way the devil definitely has the upper hand.  And you aren't really beating the devil as a monk, but as a mini-dragon. *shrug*
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Pimpforged

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2011, 04:00:55 PM »
Yeah, I think there are very specific things you need to be able to beat him.
  45 AC so he only hits on a nat 20
  +20 or higher to hit so you can hit him back
  High damage output or a way to do silver and good, so your hits actually matter
  A way to counteract his mobility and reach
  Enough HP to take a few hits from him
  Decent will and fort saves so his fear aura and stun don't just wtf pwn you

Overall, I don't think it's happening with VOP monk/monk prc only. If you let the monk take lvls of casting + Enlightened Fist / Sacred Fist he might have a chance otherwise I'm pretty sure he's fucked.

Monks ftw  :facepalm
 

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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2011, 04:11:08 PM »
Quote
But yeah, either way the devil definitely has the upper hand.  And you aren't really beating the devil as a monk, but as a mini-dragon. *shrug*
I've seen many people feel that way, and you're probbably right but hey we're reaching here.
I gotta ask you though, does beating them as a monk mean something like only beathing them with stunning fist? I'm not being sarcastic, just curious, I apparently get shoved into a "hate templates pile" of poster, which is nonsense, I'd like to hear what you have to say about that, I know Its not just me.
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Maybe you can get some incarnum or... Binding or some other power worth a damn to help.
The breath seems to be the best so far. . . maybe we coul use fear?
Give it a bit... it can be done... maybe.
There's also Standstill/karmicstike/supernatural oppurtunist. ... its like trying to make a fighter but worse in that case.
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Re: Level 12 Monk vs Horned Devil
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2011, 04:12:48 PM »
I think when people want to see someone beating up someone else "as a monk", they mean relying on the monk's class abilities and features.

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