Author Topic: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric  (Read 15525 times)

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juton

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2011, 03:07:59 PM »
Sunic:

Why? Why do you have to come into Pathfinder threads and spout shit like a level 3 Fighter doesn't work in Pathfinder. You don't convince anyone who doesn't hate Pathfinder already. The people asking for help for a Pathfinder game, they still go off and play Pathfinder, and even though you know it's BadWrongFun they still have fun.

I don't know what Jason Buhlman did to you, frankly I don't care. I don't care if none of the Paizils wouldn't listen to you during the playtest. If you do this because you are bored, get a new hobby. Let people play the game they want without you spewing bullshit.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2011, 09:04:11 PM »
Sunic:

Why? Why do you have to come into Pathfinder threads and spout shit like a level 3 Fighter doesn't work in Pathfinder. You don't convince anyone who doesn't hate Pathfinder already. The people asking for help for a Pathfinder game, they still go off and play Pathfinder, and even though you know it's BadWrongFun they still have fun.

I don't know what Jason Buhlman did to you, frankly I don't care. I don't care if none of the Paizils wouldn't listen to you during the playtest. If you do this because you are bored, get a new hobby. Let people play the game they want without you spewing bullshit.


Hi Welcome

1: It is my duty as Crusader of Logic to defend people from bad games. That includes recommending they play a real game.
2: See above, but for Lies, and the duty is to Dispel them.
3: The Paizils could have gotten this much positive publicity if they weren't total mouth breathing fuckwits. But this isn't about that, this is about how Pathfailure is a terrible game, and if you must play it (which I was initially assuming, by the way) max DC save or lose is the only way to go. The current way he was going was full of misery and fail, so I warned him off that road.

Hi Welcome
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

X-Codes

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2011, 09:11:18 PM »
1: It is my duty as Crusader of Logic to defend people from bad games. That includes recommending they play a real game.
So, because of your self-appointed BS title you are not just entitled, but obligated to be a complete douchebag to everyone who disagrees with you?

juton

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2011, 09:27:01 PM »
1: It is my duty as Crusader of Logic to defend people from bad games. That includes recommending they play a real game.

So why don't you? 3.5 breaks down in horrific ways even before you hit the mid-levels, so why don't you recommend a game that doesn't punish you for being anything other than a full-caster?

veekie

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2011, 04:22:56 AM »
1: It is my duty as Crusader of Logic to defend people from bad games. That includes recommending they play a real game.

So why don't you? 3.5 breaks down in horrific ways even before you hit the mid-levels, so why don't you recommend a game that doesn't punish you for being anything other than a full-caster?

4E. :P
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

X-Codes

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2011, 04:55:44 AM »
1: It is my duty as Crusader of Logic to defend people from bad games. That includes recommending they play a real game.

So why don't you? 3.5 breaks down in horrific ways even before you hit the mid-levels, so why don't you recommend a game that doesn't punish you for being anything other than a full-caster?

4E. :P
May as well be flame-baiting there.  :rollseyes

veekie

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2011, 05:29:37 AM »
Hey, it punishes you just for existing, equality!
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Gods_Trick

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2011, 05:30:25 AM »

1: It is my duty as Crusader of Logic to defend people from bad games. That includes recommending they play a real game.

So why don't you? 3.5 breaks down in horrific ways even before you hit the mid-levels, so why don't you recommend a game that doesn't punish you for being anything other than a full-caster?

4E. :P

And so it begins  :rollseyes Bring on the flames.

Sunics kinda bipolar. Whenever hes developing something useful, its all good, smart relevant guy. In self appointed Crusader mode, hes the kid that forces his way into your party and repeatedly tells everyone what a bad party it is.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2011, 09:12:39 AM »
1: It is my duty as Crusader of Logic to defend people from bad games. That includes recommending they play a real game.
So, because of your self-appointed BS title you are not just entitled, but obligated to be a complete douchebag to everyone who disagrees with you?

Hi Welcome

1: It is my duty as Crusader of Logic to defend people from bad games. That includes recommending they play a real game.

So why don't you? 3.5 breaks down in horrific ways even before you hit the mid-levels, so why don't you recommend a game that doesn't punish you for being anything other than a full-caster?


Hi Welcome

Pathfailure breaks down in all the same ways, and many more besides. 3.5 is also one of the least broken games out there. Which says a lot about the quality of the competition, but whatever.

1: It is my duty as Crusader of Logic to defend people from bad games. That includes recommending they play a real game.

So why don't you? 3.5 breaks down in horrific ways even before you hit the mid-levels, so why don't you recommend a game that doesn't punish you for being anything other than a full-caster?

4E. :P

Hi Welcome

In 4.Fail, everyone is a Monk. The only reason this doesn't make you die at character creation is because everyone includes the enemy.


1: It is my duty as Crusader of Logic to defend people from bad games. That includes recommending they play a real game.

So why don't you? 3.5 breaks down in horrific ways even before you hit the mid-levels, so why don't you recommend a game that doesn't punish you for being anything other than a full-caster?

4E. :P

And so it begins  :rollseyes Bring on the flames.

Sunics kinda bipolar. Whenever hes developing something useful, its all good, smart relevant guy. In self appointed Crusader mode, hes the kid that forces his way into your party and repeatedly tells everyone what a bad party it is.

Hi Welcome

It's not being bipolar when you're harsh on fuckwits, and agreeable with intelligent people. Those are called reasonable reactions. Just as otherwise nice people tend to react poorly to drunks stomping around in their yard.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

juton

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2011, 10:53:50 AM »
Hi Welcome

Pathfailure breaks down in all the same ways, and many more besides. 3.5 is also one of the least broken games out there. Which says a lot about the quality of the competition, but whatever.

Nothing I could write can make you look as foolish as you do now.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2011, 12:50:27 PM »
Hi Welcome

Pathfailure breaks down in all the same ways, and many more besides. 3.5 is also one of the least broken games out there. Which says a lot about the quality of the competition, but whatever.

Nothing I could write can make you look as foolish as you do now.

Hi Welcome

Let's review the competition:

1st edition, 2nd edition: Flat out doesn't cover all manner of things, breaks randomly, and in laughable ways.

Pathfailure: Already covered.

4.Fail: Breaks both in and out of combat, breaks if you ride a donkey, breaks if you play it, breaks if you don't play it, breaks if you look at it funny...

Shadowrun: Breaks if you do anything other than be Murdering Hobos at the deploy of an anonymous employer.

White Wolf: Depending on the game, either complete and epic fail at everything it's supposed to do, or just complete and epic fail without conditionals.

FATAL: Exists.

Now, you were saying?
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

juton

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2011, 01:44:10 PM »
Hi Welcome

Let's review the competition:

1st edition, 2nd edition: Flat out doesn't cover all manner of things, breaks randomly, and in laughable ways.

Pathfailure: Already covered.

4.Fail: Breaks both in and out of combat, breaks if you ride a donkey, breaks if you play it, breaks if you don't play it, breaks if you look at it funny...

Shadowrun: Breaks if you do anything other than be Murdering Hobos at the deploy of an anonymous employer.

White Wolf: Depending on the game, either complete and epic fail at everything it's supposed to do, or just complete and epic fail without conditionals.

FATAL: Exists.

Now, you were saying?

A bit disingenuous, aren't you? Doesn't 3.5 break if anyone plays a caster?

Spirit of the Century and Savage Worlds are both better play experiences than 3.5. Mutants and Masterminds can easily be adapted to fantasy, even though the system is easy to abuse, the abuses are moderate and any archetype can get in on the action. Those are just the ones I've played in the last year, I can see why you'd think 3.5 is golden if all you've played is shit like nWoD.

Gods_Trick

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2011, 02:15:52 PM »

I've found Fading Suns and Serenity pleasant. Dogs in the Vineyard is excellent, but niche.

Absolon

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2011, 02:17:06 PM »
I was under the impression that Star Wars Saga Edition was a bit more balanced overall vs 3.5...but isn't this all irrelevant to helping this fellow with his cleric?  I made a thread like this one about a month ago and I had the good fortune to not have flaming/trolling go on in it.  So we have disagreements about what is a good system to play, so what?  People gave their thoughts on what they thought was a good way to do things within the parameters given.

My opinion on the matter is that I think you've got melee pretty much covered in your group with the summoner and the other cleric (I'm not so clear on the level of optimization that your group or GM uses so I'm just guessing here).  If you could pick up on buffs, BFC and general spell stuff that you'd picture a wizard doing, I think you'd do just fine.  If you see yourself smiting infidels with divine magic along with the BFC and buffing, consider taking Good and(or?) Law as your domains so as to get the Archon subdomain.  Having your own Aura of Menace that you can switch on that gives enemies a -2 to all saves with no save allowed for that effect is quite nice when you want that Hold Monster or Destruction to do the job.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2011, 03:42:34 PM »
Hi Welcome

Let's review the competition:

1st edition, 2nd edition: Flat out doesn't cover all manner of things, breaks randomly, and in laughable ways.

Pathfailure: Already covered.

4.Fail: Breaks both in and out of combat, breaks if you ride a donkey, breaks if you play it, breaks if you don't play it, breaks if you look at it funny...

Shadowrun: Breaks if you do anything other than be Murdering Hobos at the deploy of an anonymous employer.

White Wolf: Depending on the game, either complete and epic fail at everything it's supposed to do, or just complete and epic fail without conditionals.

FATAL: Exists.

Now, you were saying?

A bit disingenuous, aren't you? Doesn't 3.5 break if anyone plays a caster?

Spirit of the Century and Savage Worlds are both better play experiences than 3.5. Mutants and Masterminds can easily be adapted to fantasy, even though the system is easy to abuse, the abuses are moderate and any archetype can get in on the action. Those are just the ones I've played in the last year, I can see why you'd think 3.5 is golden if all you've played is shit like nWoD.

Well, no. The game assumes casters, and spells are actually balanced with themselves and each other. And since most enemies cast spells, it works out. It does break if no one plays a caster, but that's still a less broken game than the others I mention. M&M literally has Pun-Pun in the core books - it exists as a random DM fuck you, that the DM is encouraged to use. Also, due to the wide variance involved in that system you totally end up with people randomly dropping in one hit from weak attacks, or barely being scratched by good ones, so yes, it's a fail system. The others you mention have WoD style mechanics where being better at something can actually make you WORSE at it (otherwise known as Critical Fumble Fail) so they fail too.

Lastly, saga also suffers from LOL RANDOM DEATH and MASTER CLASS. Just in different ways.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2011, 09:30:30 PM »
The Fate system?
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Gods_Trick

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2011, 05:02:30 AM »

Meh, poor OPs getting his thread trolled. Any more stuff for his PF cleric?

veekie

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Re: Looking for help building a Pathfinder Cleric
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2011, 05:37:56 AM »
Could use some feedback as to preferred combat style, and maybe we can see about picking feats out.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."