Author Topic: Thoughts on this house rule?  (Read 3034 times)

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Prime32

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Thoughts on this house rule?
« on: February 16, 2011, 12:23:33 PM »
Add your BAB to damage. (capped at your CR)
EDIT: If your BAB is artificially increased somehow (such as by the divine power spell), use your original BAB to determine damage.

Analysis? Could help TWFers and blaster mages, as well as guys like Regdar. :rollseyes
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 09:44:07 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Bozwevial

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2011, 12:46:42 PM »
SWSE has something similar to this (add half your heroic level to your damage). It's pretty helpful for keeping characters relevant even if they aren't focused on combat.

It would be a nice boost for blasters, TWFers, and the like.

Gods_Trick

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2011, 01:04:19 PM »

Sounds good. Gives TWf'ers a boost. Would it be applied to monsters?

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2011, 01:06:49 PM »

Sounds good. Gives TWf'ers a boost. Would it be applied to monsters?

He said capped at your CR, so assumably it does.

Good thing it is capped too: Some enemies have up to triple their CR in HD, which means they have a high BAB.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

SneeR

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2011, 01:40:37 PM »
Problem is with homebrew monsters where the DM doesn't even bother with an exact CR, just a guesstimate area. Multiclass spellcasters (such as those going into dual-casting PrC's) also gain much less benefit than pure casters, having a BAB as low as +2 at seventh level. Maybe add the damage to each die of magic damage? So casting a fireball would net lvl seven here a +14 rather than +2?

This could also make higher levels even more stupidly deadly. What would have almost killed you now does. I wouldn't implement it, but it probably isn't broken.

Would it be precision damage like critical hits, skirmish, and sneak attack? Or just base weapon damage like a sort of STR bonus-bonus?
The answer to everything:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
SneeR
[spoiler]
I don't know if the designers meant you to take Skill Focus for every feat.
Sounds a little OP.

The monk is clearly the best class, no need to optimize here. What you are doing is overkill.

It's like people who have no idea what a turn signal is. They ruin it for everyone else.
When another driver brandishes a holy symbol and begins glowing with divine light, seek cover or get spattered with zombie brains. I do not see what is so complicated about this.
[/spoiler]

Rymosrac

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2011, 02:09:13 PM »
Maybe add the damage to each die of magic damage? So casting a fireball would net lvl seven here a +14 rather than +2?

lolno.

Otherwise, I like it.
Shh. My common sense is tingling. . .

Prime32

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2011, 03:42:12 PM »
Problem is with homebrew monsters where the DM doesn't even bother with an exact CR, just a guesstimate area.
In other words, when you don't know how strong a monster will be... you don't know how strong a monster will be? ??? If the DM already can't tell the difference between a curbstomp and a TPK then this isn't going to change much.

Quote
Multiclass spellcasters (such as those going into dual-casting PrC's) also gain much less benefit than pure casters, having a BAB as low as +2 at seventh level.
Non-fractional BAB/saves are bizarre and metagamey anyway.

Quote
Maybe add the damage to each die of magic damage? So casting a fireball would net lvl seven here a +14 rather than +2?
No. There is no reason to add +400 damage to disintegrate (+640 or more when cast by a gish).

Quote
Would it be precision damage like critical hits, skirmish, and sneak attack? Or just base weapon damage like a sort of STR bonus-bonus?
Normal damage.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 03:48:30 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

SneeR

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2011, 03:46:28 PM »
Like the idea, but it adds a little bit of stress to the DM's workload, having to remember that every hit does CR more damage.
The answer to everything:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
SneeR
[spoiler]
I don't know if the designers meant you to take Skill Focus for every feat.
Sounds a little OP.

The monk is clearly the best class, no need to optimize here. What you are doing is overkill.

It's like people who have no idea what a turn signal is. They ruin it for everyone else.
When another driver brandishes a holy symbol and begins glowing with divine light, seek cover or get spattered with zombie brains. I do not see what is so complicated about this.
[/spoiler]

Mixster

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2011, 03:51:48 PM »
Nice, but you'd have to play with Partial BAB for it to be really good IMO.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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Maat_Mons

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2011, 06:15:26 PM »
I wouldn't make it actually be base attack bonus to damage.  I'd give every class a progression for extra damage, using base attack bonus as a guide.  This prevents divine power from giving the bonus damage and gives you further customization options. 

Prime32

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2011, 09:40:56 PM »
I wouldn't make it actually be base attack bonus to damage.  I'd give every class a progression for extra damage, using base attack bonus as a guide.  This prevents divine power from giving the bonus damage and gives you further customization options. 
Or add a rule that temporary boosts to BAB don't increase damage.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Mixster

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2011, 09:41:58 PM »
I wouldn't make it actually be base attack bonus to damage.  I'd give every class a progression for extra damage, using base attack bonus as a guide.  This prevents divine power from giving the bonus damage and gives you further customization options. 
Or add a rule that temporary boosts to BAB don't increase damage.
Yeah then you wouldn't have to go over every class and assign them a Damage increase, just add the BAB.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

Ithamar

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2011, 06:25:05 PM »
But it would not add to ability damage, right?
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Prime32

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2011, 04:16:49 PM »
But it would not add to ability damage, right?
That would be silly.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Amadi

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2011, 06:05:50 PM »
While it does help TWFers, sure, it doesn't hit the root of the problem. The fact is that in D&D, dexterous, intelligent, or any other fighter lacks any substantial advantage over the strong guy. In real life, dexterous people would get more situations to hit, would hit more precisely and would be good at maneuvers such as disarm or trip. In D&D? Those are all done with strength. Hell, dexterity requires a feat tax just to be able to hit people, and apart from really specific spells/prestigeclasses, intelligent fighters can't hit a barn's door.

If we were to start fixing this..

A: Each character gets Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.
B: Add your BaB to weapon damage.
C: Trip and Disarm are doable with either strength or dexterity.
D: Add your dexterity bonus to attacks as precision damage.

And we'd probably need more options still, especially for the intelligent fighter-type, and the wisdom-based guys should get something, too. Everything has charisma to everything and lolimperviouscommand, so I think cha-based is about fine. Still, might need some help.

Next up, strength-based casters.

BrokeAndDrive

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2011, 06:24:20 PM »
The fact is that in D&D, dexterous, intelligent, or any other fighter lacks any substantial advantage over the strong guy. In real life, dexterous people would get more situations to hit, would hit more precisely and would be good at maneuvers such as disarm or trip.
Cribbed from an epic feat in the Immortal's Handbook. (in fact, lots of epic feats in there can probably be used as normal feats, like Skywalker which gives permanent, extraordinary flight "through esoteric breathing techniques".)

Improved Finesse
You rely wholly on precision rather than power, for accuracy and the deliverance of pain.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Weapon Finesse
Benefit: You may elect to use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier for as a bonus on weapon damage rolls, but only with weapons compatible with Weapon Finesse. You also gain half your Dexterity modifier as a bonus on ranged weapons, but only out to its first range increment (twice this far if you're capable of making sneak attacks, skirmish attacks, and the like).
Normal: You use your Strength modifier for weapon damage rolls, and no ability modifier gives a bonus on ranged attack rolls.
Special: The bonus is never halved as with Strength; you always gain your full Dexterity modifier, even for off-hand attacks or secondary natural attacks.


No, it doesn't fix the problem, and is a feat tax (though it could be rolled up with Weapon Finesse, and/or a class skill of stealthy/speedy types?), but it could be an option for those who wanna kill with agility over brawn or guile.
Random quotes:[spoiler]I think Roy's coinages are shitty and dumb, but Failroy has to take the cake for the dumbest new compound word of the year
~

That was kind of the point. I was trying to be a Roy parody, but I guess it didn't come across overly well.

==

JaronK is of course most famous for his massive thought experiments into placing classes into tiers. While a kind of nifty idea, and a decent enough way to think about stuff, his particular tier assignments were basically insane. Apparently the criteria he used was to assign classes relative strength based on what bullshit he personally would let them get away with at 20th level.

So Factotums were rated very highly, because apparently he would let them use Rokugan-exclusive skills with Forgotten Realms-exclusive weapons from the back of MM2 templated warbeasts. But Rogues suck donkey dick, becuase he wouldn't let them use Use Magic Device to read scrolls of Planar Binding. It was a very surreal argument.
~

And to think the system was immortalized in OOTS. As a general rule, I try to avoid all tier discussion there because it's the De Facto system at BG, and I'm not going to change anyone's mind.

Besides, I think if most people are pressed, they will admit that it's just an estimate, anyway, and that results can vary from table to table.
~

My only real complaint with the tier system is that at one point I was tired (tiered?) of hearing about it.[/spoiler]

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2011, 02:12:28 AM »
"through esoteric breathing techniques". Ripple.

Fixed.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Gods_Trick

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Re: Thoughts on this house rule?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2011, 07:05:34 AM »
"through esoteric breathing techniques". Ripple.

Fixed.

And suddenly the fighter got awesome.