Author Topic: Gish help...without polymorph etc  (Read 2764 times)

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Cephid Arcanis

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Gish help...without polymorph etc
« on: February 13, 2011, 01:08:32 PM »
We don't use polymorph/alter self/shapechange etc...

...but I want to make a wicked gish.

So how should I do it?

As a base I was thinking:

Focused Transmuter 4/Warblade 1/Spell Sword 1/Abjurant Champion5/Jade Pheonix 10
1) Transmuter [fighter feat]
2) Transmuter
3) Transmuter
4) Transmuter
5) Warblade (3 known: 2nd level max)
6) Spellsword (-10% armour failure= Mithril, twilight Feycraft Full Plate Casting)
7) Jade Pheonix (+1 known: 2nd)
8) Abjurant Champion
9) Abjurant Champion
10) Abjurant Champion
11) Abjurant Champion
12) Abjurant Champion (+5 shield AC.)
13) Jade Pheonix BAB:+11/+6/+1
14) Jade Phoenix (+1 known: 5th, +1 ready)

Is focused Transmutator stupid without polymorph?

This build only needs Int, Str and Con. Still a bit MAD.
Where do I get my combat power from if I'm stuck in my natural form?
What race etc?

Thanks
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stranglebat

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Re: Gish help...without polymorph etc
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2011, 01:55:22 PM »
Maybe look into Changeling Specialist and take recaster to 3 levels. If you delay it a little bit you can pick up divine power and you will get 3/day quicken and 3/day still for if you really need it.

Another class that might be nice is war weaver as you not only can buff others with your weave but with the store in weave ability you can get off 3 to 4 buffs in the first round.

Zaxter

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Re: Gish help...without polymorph etc
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2011, 02:38:08 PM »
The higher-level Bite of the Were-X spells from Spell Compendium are wonderful buffs (the lower-level ones are okay too I guess). Wraithstrike is also great damage booster when combined with Power Attack.

By the way, the build stub you have there is 21 levels long. Maybe that was on purpose, maybe not, just thought I'd point it out.

Littha

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Re: Gish help...without polymorph etc
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2011, 02:42:47 PM »
If you can get it, Runesmith is a better option than spellsword for your heavy armor. It would require a crusader level rather than warblade though

Cephid Arcanis

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Re: Gish help...without polymorph etc
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2011, 05:36:05 AM »
If you can get it, Runesmith is a better option than spellsword for your heavy armor. It would require a crusader level rather than warblade though
That's what I originally had, but this way I get +1 BAB and entry into Abjurant Champion one level earlier. And I can still use full plate.
The higher-level Bite of the Were-X spells from Spell Compendium are wonderful buffs (the lower-level ones are okay too I guess). Wraithstrike is also great damage booster when combined with Power Attack.

By the way, the build stub you have there is 21 levels long. Maybe that was on purpose, maybe not, just thought I'd point it out.

Yeah, I forgot about the bite series. There great. Shame about standard action casting and 1rnd/level duration thou.

Maybe look into Changeling Specialist and take recaster to 3 levels. If you delay it a little bit you can pick up divine power and you will get 3/day quicken and 3/day still for if you really need it.
I'll have a look at re-caster, thanks. What's the go with changling specialist?
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stranglebat

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Re: Gish help...without polymorph etc
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2011, 08:44:21 AM »
Figured its a bonus Transmutation and Illusion specialist in one go if your going changeling anyway for recaster, not sure if you can use focused variant with it.
The real bonus is if you go 5 levels and get the improved familar feat technically you could change your familar into most of the monster manual as a full round action. Need a mount make it a howler, need a scout turn it into an imp quit alot of options.

skydragonknight

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Re: Gish help...without polymorph etc
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2011, 10:59:18 AM »
A spell-storing weapon is your friend. An extra 3-10d8 fire damage (Combust) every encounter that costs no additional action is nifty for quite some time. Remember to Extend your Wraithstrike to save you some swift actions for your other neat tricks.
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Rebel7284

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Re: Gish help...without polymorph etc
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2011, 11:03:05 AM »
There is always Necropolitan or Warforged Spelldancer 2 dip if 3.0 is allowed.  Dance each morning to persist all your buffs.
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Kajhera

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Re: Gish help...without polymorph etc
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2011, 11:10:01 AM »
There is always Necropolitan or Warforged Spelldancer 2 dip if 3.0 is allowed.  Dance each morning to persist all your buffs.

It should be noted this takes 4 feats of limited usefulness to qualify for, last flavor of that class I checked.

BrokeAndDrive

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Re: Gish help...without polymorph etc
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2011, 11:17:48 AM »
Semi-related: Isn't "gish" just a quick way to say "a warrior-type who can somewhat keep up with casters?" :)
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Gish help...without polymorph etc
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2011, 11:22:32 AM »
There is always Necropolitan or Warforged Spelldancer 2 dip if 3.0 is allowed.  Dance each morning to persist all your buffs.

It should be noted this takes 4 feats of limited usefulness to qualify for, last flavor of that class I checked.
It  should also be noted that it is worth it. Persist as many spells as you want for effectively free? Broken as all hell.

Kajhera

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Re: Gish help...without polymorph etc
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2011, 01:35:23 PM »
There is always Necropolitan or Warforged Spelldancer 2 dip if 3.0 is allowed.  Dance each morning to persist all your buffs.

It should be noted this takes 4 feats of limited usefulness to qualify for, last flavor of that class I checked.
It  should also be noted that it is worth it. Persist as many spells as you want for effectively free? Broken as all hell.

It's worth it once you get there, yes.

Shadeseraph

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Re: Gish help...without polymorph etc
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2011, 06:56:05 AM »
Well, as a general solution for any gishes, as some have said before, wraithstrike + PA is the usual gish damage source. I'm pretty fond of Arcane Strike even for maneuver based gishes, as it applies to every attack for the round, even OAs. It's somewhat redundant with the JPM ability, but that's less powerful IMO.

Transmutation Focused Specialist, as everyone has said, is perfectly fine even without polymorph.

For race, Illuminian is great for some goodies, including extra casting level without having to resort to Practiced Spellcaster and use Str instead of Int for extra spells, which is a great way to avoid MAD if you don't focus on CD based spells -you just get a 13-15 base int and increase it through magic items.
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