Hide in Plain Sight requires only the presence of shadows
No one said anything about hide in plain sight. He said hide.
Sunic, shut the fuck up.
Quick question... do you really want to get "uncivil" like that?
Man's voice a strong opinion. Contrary to what other people want to hear. . .
So your answer is to shout him down? Really? Thats really uncool of you x-codes.
In anycase I'm going to roll with Sunic on this one just because if 12 people agree on
something it should be someones JOB to disagree so that its not an automatic circle jerk.
But this is really what expouses it to me.
In general, since it's a team game, the standard Splinter Cell style stealth won't be well-captured. The rogue isn't usually going to be able to defeat the enemies that were set up to challenge the entire party. And, if you can, then you are going to get glares from around the table as they watch you play.
Thats a pretty hardcore rubric to go up against really.
1. Scout ahead: Get spotted. Die
2. Scout ahead: Get spotted. Win. Do that more than occasionally and people are likely to get annoyed at watching your solo adventure.
....
3. Scout ahead : Return with info. It seems like... well honestly this is a job that can be accomplished with class features, instead of splitting the Xp/gold with someone who's whole goal in life is to do that.
.........
There's something else that really irks me about this in a way.
You do need some kind of concealment to hide. Sunic saying shadow is just once case and we all know that.
However... if you hide behind a tree and you walk out from behind a tree everybody just sees you. Especially with darkvision being out there, and everybody start pointing out how many other ways there are to be able to hide.
So, if you have a party of "total stealth dudes" it would take a specific type of encounter to kill actually challenge them. So you maybe could build and run a "force recon" adventure... but really scry/die, arcane eye, ... just spells in general seem to be what obviates it. Doesn't really play out well in other types of parties in my exp.
I played a rogue-type up to like 28th level.
epic.
EDIT: Those rules pointed out in the rules compendium. I've never seen anyone invoke in a game ever. I've read that and don't even think of those rules. I'd have to see what the penalty is, further they break even with spells that do the same.
Lastly even if you are PERVERSLY good at hiding, you still run into the 3 situations I outlined above, please address.
Edit 2:
That penalty can be insanely huge depending on circumstace
Hecatoncheires. I know ... math is hard. While True Seeing announces "fuck you Invisibility" it doesn't help out against Hide. One of the few edges a mundane tactic has.
I don't think anybody really considers the things that happen @ epic levels this is not adding any credibility to your argument. That just not practical enough for people to care typically. Also... civility... lets not get all "math is hard" it'll just turn the thread to nonsense faster. I for one am curious to see what really becomes of this.
Someon may have gotten something valid out of stealth interactions with a party. See thats my problem with it more than anything else. It just doesn't gel well unless you're able to seriously assassinate someone then high tail it back to the party.