Author Topic: Eternal Blade Help  (Read 5265 times)

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Jopustopin

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Eternal Blade Help
« on: January 29, 2011, 09:16:14 PM »
Hi, I've been playing in a game since November and it looks like it might go on for a long time.  I originally had a grand ol' plan for this character but after playing to ECL 3 I'm kinda torn on what I should do.

Current Character Sheet ECL 3:
[spoiler]
Eilara Siannoedel
female phrenic elf crusader 1
NG medium humanoid (elf, psionic)
Init +3; Senses Listen +2, Spot +2
Languages Common, Elven, Sylven, Draconic

AC 19, touch 13, flat-Footed 16
hp 12 (1HD)
Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +0
Resist PS 11

Speed 30 ft.
Melee mwk rapier +3 (1d6+1/18-20)
Ranged mwk shortbow +5 (1d6/x3)
Base Atk +1; Grp +2
Atk Options Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5
Psi-Like Abilities (ML 1st):
  • 3/day- Precognition, Defensive
  • 1/day- Force Screen

Maneuvers and Stances Known (IL 1st):
  • Stances- Martial Spirit
  • Maneuvers-Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, Stone Bones, Douse the Flames, Leading the Attack

Abilities Str 13, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 14
Feats Extra Granted Maneuver
Skills Appraise 1.0 Rank, Balance 4 Ranks, Bluff 1.0 Rank, Concentration 4 ranks, diplomacy 4 ranks, intimidate 1 rank, jump 4 ranks, history 1 rank, religion 1 rank, nobility and royalty .5 ranks
[/spoiler]


Originally I was going to try to make a critical hit build Crusader 10/Eternal Blade 10

[spoiler]
1: Extra Granted Maneuver
3: Weapon Focus (Falchion)
6: Martial Study (Claw at the Moon)
9: Improved Critical (Falchion)
12: Martial Stance (Blood in the Water)
15: Power Attack
18: Open
[/spoiler]

But after playing for the last month I'm beginning to realize this might not be a good idea given our party composition. 

Party: Dragonfire Adept 3, Wilder 3, Warblade 2/Dragonshaman 1, Swordsage 3, Crusader 1 (me)

Specifically it seems that the roles I wanted to cover: Diplomacy and DPS are being covered already by the Dragonfire Adept (Diplomacy, Battlefield control) and the warblade and swordsage - DPS.  The Warforged Wilder with Adamantine Armor and Vigor can last forever in combat (Tank).  Soooo..... I need help with finding a niche.

We do play with multiclass xp penalties, however the feat from unearth arcana to grant additional favored classes is available.  I definitely want to play an Eternal Blade 10 so that part of the build is non-negotiable. But pretty much everything else is up for grabs.  Anyone have any advice on what I should go for?

The DM has said that pretty much anything is available except for Incarnuum I think.  Dragon Magazine is on a case by case basis.

sir_argenon

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2011, 09:22:09 PM »
well if you want eternal 10, before epic, then you have to take all full bab classes.. which limits you quite a bit.  just keep that in mind.

Maat_Mons

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2011, 10:16:09 PM »
Are you playing with LA buyoff?  If so, phrenic will eventually be amazing.  If not, it's still a tier 2 template.  Right now though, ouch.  Having a third of the class levels of everyone else hurts.  In any case, see if your DM will let you take the magic in the blood feat (Player's Guide to Faerun 40).  It lets you use any racial spell-like ability 3/day if it was normally usable 1/day. 

Are you a standard elf?  There are types of elf that take the penalty to strength, intelligence, or charisma instead of constitution. 

Your ability scores lend themselves to an attack of opportunity build. 

If you're going to have those ability scores, you should buy a feycraft (Dungeon Master's Guide II) light weapon.  It deals less damage but gives you the benefits of weapon finesse when attacking with it for 1,500 gp. 

Depending on what kind of elf you are, your favored class could be bard, cleric, druid, fighter, psion, ranger, sorcerer, or wizard. 

Jopustopin

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2011, 10:28:41 PM »
I choose the PHB elf because when I made the build originally I wanted a true dragonmark.  All the elf subraces only qualify for aberrant dragonmarks (Players Guide to Eberron).  I still might pick up a true dragonmark later and I didn't want to burn the bridge so to speak. 

We are playing LA buy-offs.  So yeah there is that.  Eventually I'll be good.

I'll ask the DM if I can use Magic in the Blood but I think he probably won't allow it for two reasons: I don't meet the prerequisites and I can only select it at first level. 

If I choose to focus on AoO how would I go about this? 

Endarire

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2011, 02:10:49 AM »
I made a Hood build using Eternal Blade.  See the Eternal Daughter.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Jopustopin

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2011, 05:20:41 PM »
I made a Hood build using Eternal Blade.  See the Eternal Daughter.

I missed the Hood boat already. 

So should I do something like this (I think I'm gonna bump STR at every level).
1: Extra Granted Maneuver
3: Combat Reflexes
6: Stand Still
9: Weapon Focus (Glaive)
12: Power Attack
15: Robilar's Gambit
18: Leap Attack

OR

1: Extra Granted Maneuver
3: Combat Reflexes
6: Power Attack
9: WF (Glaive)
12: Improved Bull Rush
15: Shock Trooper
18: Robilar's Gambit

Jopustopin

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2011, 09:18:32 PM »
One more:

1: Extra Granted Maneuver
3: Combat Reflexes
6: Power Attack
9: W.F. Glaive
12: Ironheart Aura
15: Stormguard Warrior
18: Defensive Sweep

Thoughts?

Jopustopin

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2011, 04:51:33 AM »
I spent many hours debating and figuring things out.  I think I'm going to go with the following:

1) Extra Granted Maneuver
3) Weapon Focus: Falchion
6) Power Attack
9) Improved Sunder
12) Shock Trooper
15) Martial Study: Shadow Blink (or maybe Wall of Blades)
18) Martial Study (Strike of Righteous Vitality)

Somewhere around level 20 I might be able to pull off the following:

Round 3: (Already in stance: Leading the Charge +20 damage for charge attacks)
Initiate Time Stands Still
Initiate War Masters Charge
Power Attack + Shock trooper -20 to hit +40 damage for the round + 50 War Master's charge + 20 Leading the Charge
(Eternal Training) Initiate Time Stands Still
Full Attack (Still get the benefits for charging from combat brute and leading the charge not war master's charge)
Full Attack (Still get the benefits for charging)
Shadow Blink back 10 - 50 feet away.
(All Maneuvers are recovered and I am randomly assigned new Maneuvers)
(If I get Time Stands Still)
Immediate Action: Island in Time
Initiate Time Stands Still
Charge (-20 to AC + 40 Damage + 20 LtC)
Full Attack


CantripN

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2011, 06:24:07 AM »
You'll be wanting Pounce and Whirling Frenzy on that, so I suggest something like a Barbarian 1 dip. And Hit-and-Run fighter isn't bad at all for DEX to Damage often, so Fighter 1 or even 2.
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Shadeseraph

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2011, 06:27:37 AM »
I'd say that the crusader is fairly better at tanking/locking than pure charge-based damage dealing, but that's your choice. I'd rather go for a reach weapon than for a falchion, and I'd get Stand-still or maybe improved trip + Knock-down. Your choice, though

One interesting option, although somewhat feat intensive: as a phrenic creature you are able to take psionic feats, and Deep Impact + Psionic Meditation works really well with maneuvers, as most of them only allow one attack, and is incredible with power attack and ruby/sapphire nightmare blade. Main problem is the lack of feats. Are you allowed to take flaws?

Anyway, I'd first decide on the focus of the char. Given your party composition, though, you are going to have it hard. As you have said, all the standard roles for a crusader are pretty much taken, multiple times, even. That said, damage dealing is always one option, because it's never a problem if you have another character doing damage (except if he is a caster).

Quote
You'll be wanting Pounce and Whirling Frenzy on that, so I suggest something like a Barbarian 1 dip. And Hit-and-Run fighter isn't bad at all for DEX to Damage often, so Fighter 1 or even 2.

Quote
We do play with multiclass xp penalties, however the feat from unearth arcana to grant additional favored classes is available.  I definitely want to play an Eternal Blade 10 so that part of the build is non-negotiable. But pretty much everything else is up for grabs.  Anyone have any advice on what I should go for?

The XP penalization will hurt him, even more if he already has to take care of the LA from phrenic.
[spoiler]
I hate mouth breathing fuckwits who go around spouting lies, even after being corrected on those lies, and that bait mods into helping to defend their wrongness and fail. I also hate the MBFs that don't understand the meaning of words, and that can't get a fucking clue.
Hey! I like spouting lies. It's very entertaining to observe how people on the internet are buffing their small egos by declaring victories over some stupid MBFs. :smirk
Also - I hate people who use too smart words that I don't understand. :mad

Hi Welcome

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Stop flirting you two.  :p
[/spoiler]

CantripN

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2011, 07:02:15 AM »
Not really. Fighter 2 / Barbarian 2 / Warblade 3 / Crusader 3 is viable, for example. And has no XP penalty, at all.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

Jopustopin

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2011, 06:20:42 AM »
I could do extra favored class (Crusader) and do something like this:

1: Crusader
2: Barbarian (Pounce + Whirling Frenzy)
3: Fighter
4-10: Crusader
11-20: Eternal Blade

1: Extra Granted Maneuver
3: Additional Favored Class (Crusader); Weapon Focus: Falcion
6: Power Attack
9: Improved Sunder
12: Shock Trooper
15: Extra Rage/Leap Attack/Extra Granted Maneuver (Shadow Blink)/Sudden Recovery
18: Extra Granted Maneuver (Time Stands Still)

Pros: POUNCE!
Cons: It alters my maneuver order slightly and I do not get to have as many 9th level maneuvers.  Specifically I get Time Stands still one level later than I would normally and I have to spend a feat to get it.  I simply cannot take a 2nd level of fighter else I wouldn't get 9th level maneuvers until level 19.


As to why I want to use a falchion instead of a reach weapon.  I plan on using a keen Falchion with a teamwork benefit that increases my threat range.  So I'll crit on a 14 - 20 ALL of my benefits that I get from leading the charge and war master's charge power attack will double if I crit.  I'll probably add a bursting effect of some sort.  If I provoke attacks of opportunity and take damage it'll only make my attacks more accurate with steely resolve.

Maneuvers:
[spoiler]
Devoted Spirit:
Martial Spirit
Revitalizing Strike
Divine Surge
Foehammer
Radiant Charge
Diamond Mind:
Moment of Perfect Mind
Emerald Razor
Moment of Alacrity
Hearing the Air
Time Stands Still
White Raven:
Douse the Flames
Leading the Charge
Battle Leader's Charge
White Raven Tactics
Press the Advantage
White Raven Hammer
War Master's Charge
[/spoiler]

I sent my Dungeon Master an email to see if he'll allow it.  I'm slightly lucky as my background involves already having my spirit guide train me (to be a crusader) at level 1.  I asked my DM if my spirit guide can also throw in some pounce variant whirling frenzy barbarian while he's at it.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 06:45:14 AM by Jopustopin »

CantripN

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2011, 06:55:02 AM »
That looks really good. I would suggest that Extra Rage, of course, and going Barbarian at level 1 for the Max HP and more Skill Points, though.

Pounce, Whirling Frenzy, Skill Points, DEX to Damage on Flat-Footed, +2 Initiative, No Lost Feats for this. What's not to like?
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

Jopustopin

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2011, 02:20:10 PM »
Where is hit and run fighter?


Edit: found it dotu

Edit: Also I've already taken my first level as a Crusader so I'm stuck with that.  It's not the end of the world.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 02:22:43 PM by Jopustopin »

Jopustopin

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2011, 08:51:44 AM »
Update: The DM has given me permission to multiclass into barbarian (pounce + whirling variant) and hit and run fighter.

However he has ruled that while raging I cannot use a maneuver (or stance) from any discipline that has as it's key skill, a skill that a barbarian cannot use while raging.  Which I think means that I have access to only Devoted Spirit (cool!) while raging.

 

CantripN

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2011, 02:00:59 PM »
More or less reasonable.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

Shadeseraph

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2011, 02:06:50 PM »
Well, you'll miss some cool white raven counters and boosts. But remember that Eternal Blade gives you access to Iron Heart, whose skill is Balance, which you are allowed to use while on a rage. And IH is fantastic.
[spoiler]
I hate mouth breathing fuckwits who go around spouting lies, even after being corrected on those lies, and that bait mods into helping to defend their wrongness and fail. I also hate the MBFs that don't understand the meaning of words, and that can't get a fucking clue.
Hey! I like spouting lies. It's very entertaining to observe how people on the internet are buffing their small egos by declaring victories over some stupid MBFs. :smirk
Also - I hate people who use too smart words that I don't understand. :mad

Hi Welcome

Go fuck yourself, because others won't do it for you.

Stop flirting you two.  :p
[/spoiler]

Jopustopin

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2011, 03:34:16 AM »
Hey could I do something like this:

Reach Weapon + Charge + Leap Attack + Power Attack + Shocktrooper + Pounce + Extreme LeapSkill Trick

I charge in a straight line making my jump check to activate leap attack (let's say I jump at least 10 feet) channel power attack into my Shocktrooper thus getting -x to my armor class and +4x to my damage.  I then make a full attack. THEN I use a swift action to move an additional ten feet on my turn from the skill trick extreme leap (which I use of course to move directly away).

It looks like I'd get a full attack and the person I attacked would not get a full attack because he'd have to use a move action to get to me.  Clever?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 03:38:27 AM by Jopustopin »

Shadeseraph

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2011, 07:09:52 AM »
Not so much. Monsters with reach rape you (OA in, OA out), and there are a lot of monsters with pounce. And against monsters who don't have those, usually you want to stay close because they are casters.

I suppose it will work sometimes, but most of the time you will be wasting your swift action instead of using it for a boost or a counter.
[spoiler]
I hate mouth breathing fuckwits who go around spouting lies, even after being corrected on those lies, and that bait mods into helping to defend their wrongness and fail. I also hate the MBFs that don't understand the meaning of words, and that can't get a fucking clue.
Hey! I like spouting lies. It's very entertaining to observe how people on the internet are buffing their small egos by declaring victories over some stupid MBFs. :smirk
Also - I hate people who use too smart words that I don't understand. :mad

Hi Welcome

Go fuck yourself, because others won't do it for you.

Stop flirting you two.  :p
[/spoiler]

CantripN

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Re: Eternal Blade Help
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2011, 10:02:37 AM »
It's still useful quite often. I've seen it in play a lot by fellow PCs. It's more than a cool trick, since it moves you to a range where you can charge again next round, too.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.