Author Topic: TWFing is now useful  (Read 8894 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2011, 12:50:01 PM »
Aberrant Limbs+Deformity (Tall), I think. Or was that Deformity (limbs), or the like?
Abberant Limbs is a template which gives you exta appendages

You're thinking of Aberrant Reach (requires Aberration Blood or Mourning Mutate) and Deformity [Tall] (requires Willing Deformity)
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Amechra

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2328
  • Thread Necromancy a Specialty
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2011, 12:53:34 PM »
Ah yes, Aberrant Reach. I seem to remember that there was a way to get 50'+ reach through feats and such.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Caelic

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 979
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2011, 01:40:50 PM »
Jack B Quick was fun to build, and I've always been sort of proud of him, but let's be honest: he's outdated, and in any case, was never meant to be as efficient as possible.  I just wanted to build a cool 20th level fighter.

I'd love to see other people really take the basic concept and redline its efficiency--the idea of using Robliar's Gambit and Karmic Strike in conjunction with Stormguard Warrior is just cool.

I'd also like to see a build that incorporates the "massive retaliatory AoOs" engine with alternate class features like Overpowering Attack or Decisive Strike.

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2011, 03:10:29 PM »
I wonder what can be done if you throw this and this in, assuming they're for the most part, compatible.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2011, 03:14:26 PM »
I wonder what can be done if you throw this and this in, assuming they're for the most part, compatible.
That's better done with a TWFing flanker and a Savvy Rogue Opportunist.

Eviltedzies

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
  • Live life. Otherwise you have none.
    • Email
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2011, 06:15:41 PM »
I completely forgot about overpowering attack.  :lol  Well Warblade 18/Fighter 2 could easily incorperate Overpowering Attack into it's setup. Since Warblade qualifies for fighter feats at its warblade level -2. I shutter to think what it would be like when combined with Stormguard Warrior.
Light in the Darkness.
Darkness in the Light.
It is truly a neverending cycle of nightmares.
Yet that is what we have been given.
Find your dreams where you may.
And live life like no other.

Amechra

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2328
  • Thread Necromancy a Specialty
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2011, 08:47:58 PM »
I'm thinking a strong build would be something like-a so:

Human Warblade 20. Stays in Wolf Pack Tactics and Press the Advantage at all times, and takes ranks in Iajatsu Focus and Tumble. Tumble means that he can double his 5-foot steps to 10-ft steps, Press the Advantage gives you an extra 5 foot step whenever you take a 5 foot step, and Wolf Pack Tactics lets you, at your option, take a 5 foot step after a successful attack.

Your weapons? Two Crescent Knives, and the feat Mercurial Strike.

Anyone who gives you any reason to take an AoO against him gets smacked 4 times, each with Iajatsu damage. You can then move 20 ft.

I would only grab Snap Kick if natural attacks count as Unarmed Strikes for the purpose of the extra attack. Because then I could get 2 more attacks in, due to that power that turns a weapon into a Natural attack.

If you wanted even more cheese, dual wield a pair of Possibility Swords. 40 attacks on a single AoO? Don't mind if I do...
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Eviltedzies

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
  • Live life. Otherwise you have none.
    • Email
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2011, 09:21:33 PM »
Just a note, Iaijutsu Focus is not a class skill for Warblades. As such your damage potential will be smaller than someone with it as a class skill.

Secondly, Iaijutsu Strikes require you to draw a weapon and attack. Even with Mercurial Strike you would need to carry 4 crescent knives in order to gain 4 Iajutsu strikes. In addition you would have to drop each crescent knife after you use it in order to use Mercurial Strike again. (Since once you've drawn one crescent knive you are no longer "unarmed" and thus not allowed to make use of Mercurial Strike.)
Light in the Darkness.
Darkness in the Light.
It is truly a neverending cycle of nightmares.
Yet that is what we have been given.
Find your dreams where you may.
And live life like no other.

bearsarebrown

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2011, 11:19:06 PM »
You would need a Gnomish Quickrazor to pull that off. Why Crescent Knives?

And that's a neat trick but by level 20 its woefully underpowered.

Amechra

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2328
  • Thread Necromancy a Specialty
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2011, 12:25:13 AM »
Crescent Knives give two attacks. I was going off description here, not rule text.

Tell me, though, would using a Possibility Sword or two work? All the attacks are simultaneous, after all...
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Eviltedzies

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
  • Live life. Otherwise you have none.
    • Email
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2011, 03:53:34 AM »
Iajutsu Striking only works on the first strike made with a weapon. Even if that weapon can hit multiple times in a single attack action, only the first strike would apply the Iajutsu damage.
Light in the Darkness.
Darkness in the Light.
It is truly a neverending cycle of nightmares.
Yet that is what we have been given.
Find your dreams where you may.
And live life like no other.

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2011, 09:54:39 AM »
Tell me, though, would using a Possibility Sword or two work? All the attacks are simultaneous, after all...
I'm pretty sure an avanc is above your standard EL though.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

fuinjutsu

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2011, 10:58:08 AM »
Iajutsu Striking only works on the first strike made with a weapon. Even if that weapon can hit multiple times in a single attack action, only the first strike would apply the Iajutsu damage.

That's not what the text says.
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

Eviltedzies

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
  • Live life. Otherwise you have none.
    • Email
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2011, 02:53:37 PM »
Quote from: fuinjutsu
That's not what the text says.

"If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately after drawing a melee weapon, you can deal extra damage, based on the result of an Iajutsu Focus check."

I'll admit the wording is could be construed as vague. But the act of "drawing a weapon" clearly implies that in order to deal the damage you must draw a weapon. I cannot see any sane DM allowing someone to draw a single weapon and Iajutsu strike every attack in a full attack.

Light in the Darkness.
Darkness in the Light.
It is truly a neverending cycle of nightmares.
Yet that is what we have been given.
Find your dreams where you may.
And live life like no other.

Mixster

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1642
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2011, 03:14:35 PM »
You could just have quick draw and a lot of shurikens. Draw a shuriken, stab with your sword, draw a new shuriken, stab him again.

Props for finding something you can draw with your feet.

Or building a character who paints weapons before he attacks.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

Rebel7284

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1585
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2011, 03:17:15 PM »
Or building a character who paints weapons before he attacks.

Lmao
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

Eviltedzies

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
  • Live life. Otherwise you have none.
    • Email
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2011, 03:35:20 PM »
Well you have Boot/Elbow/Knee/Sleeve blades available from complete scoundral. The only downside is they each take a move action to spring. Otherwise it fullfills the sneaky Iajutsu stabber motiff very nicely.
Light in the Darkness.
Darkness in the Light.
It is truly a neverending cycle of nightmares.
Yet that is what we have been given.
Find your dreams where you may.
And live life like no other.

Amechra

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2328
  • Thread Necromancy a Specialty
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2011, 07:01:12 PM »
Tell me, though, would using a Possibility Sword or two work? All the attacks are simultaneous, after all...
I'm pretty sure an avanc is above your standard EL though.

Yeh, yeh, but it would work; after all, the attacks ARE simultaneous, due to it being the sword's probability warping effect that activates on a swing.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2011, 12:44:57 AM »
Quote from: fuinjutsu
That's not what the text says.

"If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately after drawing a melee weapon, you can deal extra damage, based on the result of an Iajutsu Focus check."

I'll admit the wording is could be construed as vague. But the act of "drawing a weapon" clearly implies that in order to deal the damage you must draw a weapon. I cannot see any sane DM allowing someone to draw a single weapon and Iajutsu strike every attack in a full attack.


Two ways around this.

1. Quick Draw, attack, drop as free, repeat.
2. Gnomish Quickrazor-sheathe as free after each attack, draw as free with Quick Draw.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: TWFing is now useful
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2011, 01:18:32 AM »
Quote from: fuinjutsu
That's not what the text says.

"If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately after drawing a melee weapon, you can deal extra damage, based on the result of an Iajutsu Focus check."

I'll admit the wording is could be construed as vague. But the act of "drawing a weapon" clearly implies that in order to deal the damage you must draw a weapon. I cannot see any sane DM allowing someone to draw a single weapon and Iajutsu strike every attack in a full attack.


Two ways around this.

1. Quick Draw, attack, drop as free, repeat.
2. Gnomish Quickrazor-sheathe as free after each attack, draw as free with Quick Draw.
3. Sleight of hand, draw as free, drop as free, attack, repeat.
4. Telekinesis your melee weapons out of your sheaths (drawing them) and attack with them.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.