Thought experiment: No Core Magic

[lans]

I'm going to try to get a thread started sometime today. My laptop is still dead so things won't really get going for a few more days.

[lans]

Okay so solidly: What level are we starting at 4? or 5?
Lans. . . I looked at the shadowcaster handbook and a few other resources
and they pretty much say "Don't play this from level 1" thats hardcore.
Also do we use it as in the book or the unnofficial author fix.

For the shadow caster I'm going to give it another mystery selection at every even level and cap the level max level available so it doesn't allow early access to the next levels mysteries. So at 4th you would have 6 selections but not be allowed 3rd level mysteries, and would have needed 2 first level mysteries before you took a second level, and 2 second before you could take a third level one at level 5.

Not changing the path requirements or giving bonuses for high stats.


I got the kick off posted.
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10960.0

Figure we'll get the party selection finished up before it gets going.

[bkdubs123]

I'll come up with some backstory soon. Is Factotum approved then as long as they substitute the arcane dilettante with some alternate casting option?

Also, for my character specifically, is THIS feat allowed?

[lans]

I would prefer if you didn't use the +1 fear feat from the drow book with it.

[Midnight_v]

I would prefer if you didn't use the +1 fear feat from the drow book with it.

Hmm... its kinda par for course, that they go together. Thats kinda the thing...
Minus magic the fear dudes are in line in some ways.

[lans]

I would prefer if you didn't use the +1 fear feat from the drow book with it.

Hmm... its kinda par for course, that they go together. Thats kinda the thing...
Minus magic the fear dudes are in line in some ways.

True, would nerfing, Imperious something to only work 1 an encounter vs a specific foe be appropriate/fair/reasonable?

[bkdubs123]

I would prefer if you didn't use the +1 fear feat from the drow book with it.

Hmm... its kinda par for course, that they go together. Thats kinda the thing...
Minus magic the fear dudes are in line in some ways.

True, would nerfing, Imperious something to only work 1 an encounter vs a specific foe be appropriate/fair/reasonable?

I'd just not play my character anymore, lol. It might be reasonable, but I'd have to roll up something completely different to be usable. I was going to pick up Imperious Command and Never Outnumbered so that I could potentially cause all enemies within 10ft of me to cower for 1 minute or so. If I couldn't do that I'd just be a weak Warblade, so I'd want to play something else.

[Shadeseraph]

I would prefer if you didn't use the +1 fear feat from the drow book with it.

Hmm... its kinda par for course, that they go together. Thats kinda the thing...
Minus magic the fear dudes are in line in some ways.

True, would nerfing, Imperious something to only work 1 an encounter vs a specific foe be appropriate/fair/reasonable?

I'd just not play my character anymore, lol. It might be reasonable, but I'd have to roll up something completely different to be usable. I was going to pick up Imperious Command and Never Outnumbered so that I could potentially cause all enemies within 10ft of me to cower for 1 minute or so. If I couldn't do that I'd just be a weak Warblade, so I'd want to play something else.

Well, technically the fix/nerf he talked about limits the number of times you can use the ability against a single enemy in a given encounter, not the number of enemies you can affect, and Never Outnumbered only works once per encounter anyway (and Dreadful Wrath only works once per enemy too). And ten rounds is plenty to kill them.

BTW, I'm sorry if I'm being dense, but how do they work together? I suppose the idea is to make the enemy cower with imperious command and after that charge to overwrite the duration of the cowering condition to 1 minute, as per Dreathful Wrath effect, but it still needs 2 rounds (because using intimidate doesn't activate the fear aura granted from Dreadful Wrath) and two failed checks...

[lans]

Its normally too easy to get really high intimidate checks, so I was figuring 1 round of the enemies all cowering would be pretty suffucient in most cases, as opposed to fear-locking.

[bkdubs123]

BTW, I'm sorry if I'm being dense, but how do they work together? I suppose the idea is to make the enemy cower with imperious command and after that charge to overwrite the duration of the cowering condition to 1 minute, as per Dreathful Wrath effect, but it still needs 2 rounds (because using intimidate doesn't activate the fear aura granted from Dreadful Wrath) and two failed checks...

The idea was something along the lines of

1) Charge in, activate Dreadful Wrath, scare some newbs.
2) Intimidating Strike a guy, simultaneously activating Never Outnumbered, Imperious Command, Cunning Insight (to shore up the attack roll), and Cunning Knowledge (for even more bonus to Intimidate). Now if I hit I make a demoralize check against everyone within 10ft. Any creature who fails Cowers for 1 round and because of fear stacking, any creatures who failed against Dreadful Wrath in the round before Cower for 1 full minute.

Maybe I misinterpreted the way he intended the nerf to work, but if it still works against multiple enemies then my above strategy is still credible.

[lans]

BTW, I'm sorry if I'm being dense, but how do they work together? I suppose the idea is to make the enemy cower with imperious command and after that charge to overwrite the duration of the cowering condition to 1 minute, as per Dreathful Wrath effect, but it still needs 2 rounds (because using intimidate doesn't activate the fear aura granted from Dreadful Wrath) and two failed checks...

The idea was something along the lines of

1) Charge in, activate Dreadful Wrath, scare some newbs.
2) Intimidating Strike a guy, simultaneously activating Never Outnumbered, Imperious Command, Cunning Insight (to shore up the attack roll), and Cunning Knowledge (for even more bonus to Intimidate). Now if I hit I make a demoralize check against everyone within 10ft. Any creature who fails Cowers for 1 round and because of fear stacking, any creatures who failed against Dreadful Wrath in the round before Cower for 1 full minute.

Maybe I misinterpreted the way he intended the nerf to work, but if it still works against multiple enemies then my above strategy is still credible.

I wanted to cap the cowering to 1 round. It affecting multiple people is fine.

[bkdubs123]

BTW, I'm sorry if I'm being dense, but how do they work together? I suppose the idea is to make the enemy cower with imperious command and after that charge to overwrite the duration of the cowering condition to 1 minute, as per Dreathful Wrath effect, but it still needs 2 rounds (because using intimidate doesn't activate the fear aura granted from Dreadful Wrath) and two failed checks...

The idea was something along the lines of

1) Charge in, activate Dreadful Wrath, scare some newbs.
2) Intimidating Strike a guy, simultaneously activating Never Outnumbered, Imperious Command, Cunning Insight (to shore up the attack roll), and Cunning Knowledge (for even more bonus to Intimidate). Now if I hit I make a demoralize check against everyone within 10ft. Any creature who fails Cowers for 1 round and because of fear stacking, any creatures who failed against Dreadful Wrath in the round before Cower for 1 full minute.

Maybe I misinterpreted the way he intended the nerf to work, but if it still works against multiple enemies then my above strategy is still credible.

I wanted to cap the cowering to 1 round. It affecting multiple people is fine.

So, no stacking the duration with other fear effects then?

[Shadeseraph]

BTW, I'm sorry if I'm being dense, but how do they work together? I suppose the idea is to make the enemy cower with imperious command and after that charge to overwrite the duration of the cowering condition to 1 minute, as per Dreathful Wrath effect, but it still needs 2 rounds (because using intimidate doesn't activate the fear aura granted from Dreadful Wrath) and two failed checks...

The idea was something along the lines of

1) Charge in, activate Dreadful Wrath, scare some newbs.
2) Intimidating Strike a guy, simultaneously activating Never Outnumbered, Imperious Command, Cunning Insight (to shore up the attack roll), and Cunning Knowledge (for even more bonus to Intimidate). Now if I hit I make a demoralize check against everyone within 10ft. Any creature who fails Cowers for 1 round and because of fear stacking, any creatures who failed against Dreadful Wrath in the round before Cower for 1 full minute.

Maybe I misinterpreted the way he intended the nerf to work, but if it still works against multiple enemies then my above strategy is still credible.

I wanted to cap the cowering to 1 round. It affecting multiple people is fine.

So, no stacking the duration with other fear effects then?

One thing, if Intimidating Strike is the feat from PHB2, I think that the tactic doesn't work. Both Never Outnumbered and Imperious Command require the Demoralize option from the intimidate skill, while Intimidating Strike only allows for an intimidate check to shake him. I'd think that RAW they aren't the same. Again, this may not be the feat/class ability/maneuver, because Intimidating strike requires a standard action and you are using a charge.

On the other side, if fear durations don't stack, does that means that once the bigger but shorter effect wears off the enemy is still affected by the softer but longer fear effect?
As in, one enemy affected both by Imperious Command and by Dreathful Wrath would be cowering for one round and shaken by 9 more rounds?

[bkdubs123]

One thing, if Intimidating Strike is the feat from PHB2, I think that the tactic doesn't work. Both Never Outnumbered and Imperious Command require the Demoralize option from the intimidate skill, while Intimidating Strike only allows for an intimidate check to shake him. I'd think that RAW they aren't the same.

Ahh... well, this is true, so I guess I'll have to thoroughly rethink my build anyway. But all it means is that instead of actually attacking anyone I just use the Demoralize action as normal and everyone within 10ft cowers for 1 minute.

Again, this may not be the feat/class ability/maneuver, because Intimidating strike requires a standard action and you are using a charge.

I meant to be charging on round 1, and intimidating striking on round 2 (probably with a sudden leap out of the way afterwards). But now that I know that intimidating strike isn't actually a demoralize attempt, I won't be using that feat anyway. Probably.

On the other side, if fear durations don't stack, does that means that once the bigger but shorter effect wears off the enemy is still affected by the softer but longer fear effect?
As in, one enemy affected both by Imperious Command and by Dreathful Wrath would be cowering for one round and shaken by 9 more rounds?

I would assume so, yes.

[awaken DM golem]

Lurk can kinda work.

If you get the PHB2 retrain the specific type of lurk augment acf,
you can be Trapfinder early, and various later.
Just ditch all the psi powers, but not the powrepoints.
Those power the Lurk Augments.

[lans]

BTW, I'm sorry if I'm being dense, but how do they work together? I suppose the idea is to make the enemy cower with imperious command and after that charge to overwrite the duration of the cowering condition to 1 minute, as per Dreathful Wrath effect, but it still needs 2 rounds (because using intimidate doesn't activate the fear aura granted from Dreadful Wrath) and two failed checks...

The idea was something along the lines of

1) Charge in, activate Dreadful Wrath, scare some newbs.
2) Intimidating Strike a guy, simultaneously activating Never Outnumbered, Imperious Command, Cunning Insight (to shore up the attack roll), and Cunning Knowledge (for even more bonus to Intimidate). Now if I hit I make a demoralize check against everyone within 10ft. Any creature who fails Cowers for 1 round and because of fear stacking, any creatures who failed against Dreadful Wrath in the round before Cower for 1 full minute.

Maybe I misinterpreted the way he intended the nerf to work, but if it still works against multiple enemies then my above strategy is still credible.

I wanted to cap the cowering to 1 round. It affecting multiple people is fine.

So, no stacking the duration with other fear effects then?

I don't want you auto cowering anything not immune to fear or mindless every battle, for the entirety of the battle.

[bkdubs123]

I don't want you auto cowering anything not immune to fear or mindless every battle, for the entirety of the battle.

Well, I can't use Intimidating Strike and, while I could still combine Imperious Command and Never Outnumbered with Beguiling Influence to maybe cower a few enemies for 1 round each encounter, I think I might be better served trying something else at this point.