Battlefield control...archer

[dman11235]

Inspired from here, with all the talk of an AoO archer using Arrow Mind, I decided to try and make an archer based on Stand Still, a lock-down sort of deal.  Problems needed to be overcome: threaten an area, wind effects, attack modifier, reach.  Reach is taken care of with size increases, Inhuman Reach, and many other effects related to it.  Threatening your normal melee reach is taken care of with Arrow Mind.  This leaves wind effects and low damage are going to be a bit harder to overcome.

So.  The initial build I'm working with is psychic warrior 2/monk (decisive strike) 1/sorcerer 1/fighter 4/shou disciple 1/abjurant champion 5/eldritch knight 6.  This is a very haphazard start, I'm just trying to get as much sorcerer spell casting as possible while being able to flurry with a bow (and thus Decisive Strike) and being able to grow (expansion).  It's a very, very haphazard first attempt at this.

Feats of necessity: Stand Still, Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike and/or Robilar's Gambit, and Practiced Caster and Manifester.

[carnivore]

there is a problem ....

psychic warrior 2/monk (decisive strike) 1/sorcerer 1/fighter 4/shou disciple 1/abjurant champion 5/eldritch knight 6

Shou Disciple 1 will not allow you to Flurry with your longbow.... you need to get to Shou Disciple 5 to be able to Flurry with any Martial Weapon... on the positive side that gives you 2 bonus feats to help out with.... try this:

Psychic Warrior 2/ Monk (decisive strike) 2/ Sorcerer 1/ Fighter 2/ Shou Disciple 5/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Eldritch Knight 3

this will also give you Evasion and an Extra feat(combat reflexes) from Monk....... if you really want Weapon Specialization... try Pious Templar 3 instead of EK 3

 

[dman11235]

Ah, right, I forgot if it was level 1 or something else.

Fighter 4 was filler/feat.  So changing it to SD will be just as good.  It wasn't going to be Wp. Specialization.  Fighter isn't even necessary at all.

I'm trying to decide if sorcerer spell casting is worth it.  There's no way I can be an Arrow Demon unless I can get level 8 spells (unless the polymorph errata allows outsiders to morph into outsiders?) so I'm kind of not too hot on more than a level for Arrow Mind.  It just doesn't matter.  Also, Archivist works as well for this, since they can cast that spell.

Hmm, psywar 2/monk 2/archivist 1/SD 5/full divine casting 10.  That gives me level 6 spells, including Divine Power and Arrow Mind, and that one I can never remember the name, the touch attack on the first attack in a round?  Fell Shot maybe?  EDIT: Find the Gap.

For those ten levels, Divine Oracle or Contemplative.  Any other full casting PrC, or more Archivist, works.  Another nifty trick: UMD Raptor Arrows to fake the correct alignment.  Also you can give up a 4th level spell slot, or fake it (it's a class feature...), the only problem is: can you fake worshiping a deity?  If so RAs get just that much better.

EDIT: I don't NEED to use Decisive Strike, it just helps damage out a bit.  So I'm toying with nixing it.  In fact, I may be better off just with full casting...Especially if there is a way for an Archivist to cast Giant Size.

So.  The feats needed: Stand Still, Combat Reflexes, and either Karmic Strike or Robilar's Gambit.  Both of those have one or two prereq feats, but that's nothing major, so full archivist casting can do it, without many PrCs, if I lower it by two levels (still 9th level spells) I can get two bonus feats from psywar or fighter.

[carnivore]

you might enjoy a different approach even better:

use Psionics

try this:

Neraph(0-LA outsider from Planar handbook) or Star Elf(Races of Faerun)

Ranger 2/ Monk 2/ PW 1/ Shou Disciple 5/ Warmind 10



Feats:
Track(ranger Bonus)
Rapid Shot(ranger bonus)
Monastic Training(Warmind)(monk Bonus)
Combat Reflexes(monk Bonus)
Dodge(PsiWarrior bonus)
Weapon Finesse(Shou Disciple)
Weapon Specialization(Composite Longbow)(Shou Disciple)
1st lvl: Point Blank Shot
3rd lvl: Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
6th lvl: Weapon Focus(Composite Longbow)
9th lvl: Tashalatora(Warmind)
12th lvl: Pracitced Manifester(Warmind)
15th lvl: Robilars Gambit
18th lvl: Expanded Knowledge(Metamorphosis)

this will give you a lot:

ML 14(5th lvl Powers from PW list and Metamorphosis(for Arrow Demon form  )

BAB +18
Greater Flurry with Martial Weapons, Simple Weapons or Unarmed Strikes.... also Weapon Finnesse

 

[dman11235]

Two things on your build: 1: SD still needs to meet the prereqs for the feats...meaning you need 4 fighter levels (or 6 warblade levels) to get wp sp.

2: I don't play with multi-class xp penalties or class restrictions like the monk has (those are stupid rules and should be shot, along with most class alignment restrictions).  So I don't need Monastic training.

Also, I did a quick edit that took a lot of time to the above post by me.

EDIT: Also, how do you threaten an area?  You can't quite do BC without it, at least as far as melee/ranged attacks are concerned.

[carnivore]

then dont worry about Weapon Specialization... take Imp Init instead

Monastic training is a Pre-req for Tashalatora


you can threaten an Area with Unarmed Strikes(as 12th lvl Monk 2d6 damage(17th lvl 2d8 with Monks Belt)).... even more if you use Expansion.... +2 sizes larger... more damage and Reach.... remember, even when you are holding something with both hands... you can still KICK or use Knees 



 

[Eldariel]

If you read the fineprint on Shou Disciple, you get Flurry with all martial MELEE weapons. So that part doesn't work.

[dman11235]

So ignoring that route entirely.  Too bad.  I think a DC 50+ reflex save will be good enough.  I need a way to penetrate wind effects and force them to fail the save (stupid nat 20s) now.

Carnivore, I think you missed the point.  I'm trying to use a bow to do BC.  I've already got a great monk build that uses unarmed strikes for it.  30' reach too.  And can heal better than a healer.

Up to date build: archivist 5/full casting 15.  Any full casting works for this, it's just the feats, arrow mind, find the gap, and those things that matter.  I need now a reliable size increase method.  Or natural reach increase method.

Trading two archivist levels of psywar will net me expansion and one bonus feat (one used for practiced manifester), but this isn't necessary if I can get Giant Size on my spell list.  Anyone know of any way to do that?

I'm thinking another way to do this would be to use Warshaper for an extra 5' reach, Inhuman Reach for 5' reach (both increase natural reach), and that would get me 8th level spells, huge size, and 25' area threatening.  It's very restrictive (must be a shapeshifting race for it to be very viable) though.

[carnivore]

Carnivore, I think you missed the point.  I'm trying to use a bow to do BC.  I've already got a great monk build that uses unarmed strikes for it.  30' reach too.  And can heal better than a healer.

try using an Elvencraft Bow(RoW)... then you can Flurry with it and it is also a Melee weapon that you Threaten With

 

[Hallack]

There is a class somewhere that gives immunity I think to storm type affects.  Might be the Storm Talon but not sure.  This may or may not be an avenue to fix your wind problem.

I'll look later and see if it is viable and post exactly what it is unless someone beats me to it.

Okay, found it.  Stormcaster in Stormwrack.  Would take 4 levels though to get Eye of the Storm and would loose a caster level.  But the ability does "allow you to ignore penalties associated with ranged attacks and listen checks due to high winds"

[Rebel7284]

It's in stormwrack, I think stormlord or something.  It makes you immune to the effects of storms but i don't think it does anything for projectile weapons.

[Kuroimaken]

The problem with winds tends to be Wind Wall rather than natural occurrences of high velocity winds(at least pre-epic), right? If so, you need to figure out a way to make your projectiles seem... extraordinary. Like shooting giant boulders with your bow, or something. According to the description for Wind Wall, that's the only way projectiles go through. The other way would be if the arrows themselves were spells, but something tells me you can't cast that many spells in a round.

Honestly though, the description for Wind Wall is stupid for not differentiating between magic arrows and regular arrows. And even so, something tells me that unless you had a friggin' hurricane in front of you, an arrow shaft the size of a small tree (or a dozen of those) SHOULD penetrate the wall.

EDIT: If Giant Size is a divine spell, Archivist fixes your problem.

[Eldariel]

Just get a Force-bow. That solves all your problems with Wind Wall-type effects; Force-effects aren't affected by wind or such.

[dman11235]

So it would.  Force bows are so standard for archers I didn't even think that they did that.

As for Giant Size, my problem is getting it to be a divine spell.  Without warlock help.  Currently it's only a Wu Jen spell I believe.

[ZeroSum]

Giant Size is a Level 7 Arcane spell so it can be duplicated by Miracle, right?  Is there a reason this is untenable?

[AfterCrescent]

Giant Size is a Level 7 Arcane spell so it can be duplicated by Miracle, right?  Is there a reason this is untenable?

That's how all the cool clerics get it done

[Tshern]

So it would.  Force bows are so standard for archers I didn't even think that they did that.

As for Giant Size, my problem is getting it to be a divine spell.  Without warlock help.  Currently it's only a Wu Jen spell I believe.

Oriental Adventures dude. Hero domain introduces it as an 8th level divine spell.

[AfterCrescent]

Oriental Adventures dude. Hero domain introduces it as an 8th level divine spell.

O.O How did I not know about that? That's awesome. *opens OA* DAMN!!! :jawdrop that domain is awesome.

[Tshern]

It is, it is. I have never heard anyone apart from me even mentioning it though I promoted it at 339 a few times.

[dman11235]

...yes.

Still not sure if that's the best course of action, as it comes into play so late, where as Expansion happens at level 1 at the earliest.

Thinking out loud here, I've got Enlarge Person at level 1, Righteous Might later at level 9 (same size, but better spell), and Giant Size at level 15.

Any more reach enlarging spells?