Tell me more about how 3.x was balance tested.

[Benly]

You can also draw in the dirt or on a chalkboard.  A gnome Druid or someone with an item can use prestidigitation to do anything DM-approved, like cover his form with words he knows.

Oh, there are certainly ways to communicate with your teammates, writing in the dirt included. The thing is, that doesn't let you banter and RP effectively. If it works for you, that's fine, but for me and others in my play group it's just not fun not being able to talk (or the telepathic equivalent).

That's why, for my group at least, Always In Wild Shape is one of those things that's great in theory (because you can still convey information, so there's no mechanical downside) but non-viable in practice: it's just less fun not being able to talk.

[Aliment]

There's also this.

Fighter Level 8 Feats: Cleave, Endurance, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (halfspear), Weapon Specialization (halfspear).

*facepalm*

[Lycanthromancer]

There's also this.

Fighter Level 8 Feats: Cleave, Endurance, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (halfspear), Weapon Specialization (halfspear).

*facepalm*

He's a non-PrC'd, non-multiclassed fighter. Do you really expect anything less? Or more, for that matter?

[bearsarebrown]

The Dwarf has TWF and carries an Axe and Shield without spikes on it or IUS.

[Lycanthromancer]

The Dwarf has TWF and carries an Axe and Shield without spikes on it or IUS.

Because anything else would be MUNCHKINNING.

[stranglebat]

i like the level 11 cleric with 10 in dex wearing leather armor for some reason WHERE IS THE FULL PLATE>!!!??!?!?!?

[Bozwevial]

Wizard feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip), Toughness, Run

And yet the wizard is still probably the most powerful guy there. Well, maybe. Depends on whether the cleric is playing a healbot or not (hint: Yes she is).

[bkdubs123]

Note: The Wizard also has Int 16. For really great save DCs.

[Runestar]

A ranger/paladin multiclass! Never thought I would live to see the day. 

[LordBlades]

Not to mention it's a ranger using sword&board and heavy armor (and a splint mail, not full plate).

Also, wtf shortbow?

[cru]

@shortbow: She's riding a hippogriff. A longbow is too unwieldy to use while you are mounted.

[Prime32]

@shortbow: She's riding a hippogriff. A longbow is too unwieldy to use while you are mounted.

A composite longbow is not though... for some reason.

Also:

[Benly]

i like the level 11 cleric with 10 in dex wearing leather armor for some reason WHERE IS THE FULL PLATE>!!!??!?!?!?

[ninjarabbit]

i like the level 11 cleric with 10 in dex wearing leather armor for some reason WHERE IS THE FULL PLATE>!!!??!?!?!?

I could understand if the cleric wanted mobility but even then studded leather or hide armor would be better.

[lans]

There's also this.

Fighter Level 8 Feats: Cleave, Endurance, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (halfspear), Weapon Specialization (halfspear).

*facepalm*

He's a non-PrC'd, non-multiclassed fighter. Do you really expect anything less? Or more, for that matter?

Its also  a core fighter with a 10 dexterity and intelligence. So no improved trip and weak combat reflexes. Trade the half spear for the reach tripping martial weapon. Endurance and Improved Bullrush for ... something?

[bkdubs123]

Of course, I feel it's important to note that this definitely wasn't a balance test. At least one of the players hadn't even played a game in years, and I'd expect one or more of the others to not do the D&Ds very often. The one other game designer in the group (other than the DM) was likely the most powerful member of the group (though I don't know how he's getting 5th level Wizard spells with five levels of a PrC) build wise and in game. They were definitely just getting together to have some fun.

EDIT: Oh, I see, he's only capable of casting 3rd level spells, but has 4th and 5th in his spell book. Still, I bet he was more powerful than our Wiz 12 with Int 16.

[stranglebat]

i like the level 11 cleric with 10 in dex wearing leather armor for some reason WHERE IS THE FULL PLATE>!!!??!?!?!?

The second sentence of the article: "In the beginning there were no steel weapons, no written language, and only a few generations’ worth of history." In a low-tech setting the lack of full plate is perhaps understandable.

(That said, another PC has splint armor, which is less of an anachronism. Even so, I could believe the leather armor was a deliberate aesthetic decision for a game in a relatively primitive setting.)

The bolded parts are all metal things, i bet between the party they have enough metal for at least one suit of fullplate which to me means that its rare and maybe expensive but not unobtainable for ECL 11 characters. Even if there wasn't any metal, go kill a dragon (like it seems they did with all the dragon bits they have) and make something from its scales. Steel may not exist but metals and other hardened objects/materials do. I stand by my original statement of WTF NO DEX MODIFIER AND LEATHER ARMOR ON A CLERIC


[spoiler]Aurum Ironshard
Possessions: Studded leather armor, +3 large metal shield (with lammasu insignia), "Smite" (+2 shocking burst warhammer), +2 bracers of deflection, 2 throwing axes, hand axe, backpack, aleskin, bedroll, waterskin, 50 ft. hemp rope, grappling hook, soap, 3 days trail rations.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Aerina, female human and Clr11
Possessions: +2 leather armor, large wooden shield covered in dragonscales, gold minotaur’s necklace with continual flame cast upon it, +2 pearl of wisdom (included in the above totals), minor ring of fire resistance, 3 spell tablets (neutralize poison on each), holy symbol, signet ring, gem eyes from stone snake golem, pouch with 5 gems (40 gp each), 5 candles, 2 torches, flint & steel, masterwork healer’s kit, iron pot, 3 large belt pouches, large belt pouch with 10 sling bullets, 50 ft. hemp rope, winter blanket, white robes of Praemas.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Kaleb, male human Rog5/Inv5
Possessions: "Icerazor," lesser cloak of displacement (gives 20% miss chance), +2 ring of deflection, potion of water breathing, leather armor, stone dagger, 4 iron daggers, 18 stone throwing disks (as darts), matching +2 short swords, 2 torches, 2 candles, flint & tinder, a stone from the Mountain of Making, backpack, 4 belt pouches, fishhook & small net, 50 ft. hemp rope, 5 pitons, Knights of the Golden Cross amulet, gold ring, fistful of gems, 4 clay pots of poison, dragon tooth, dragon claw, vallis stone, key amulet to The First Dream[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Jonah, male human Ftr8
Possessions: splint mail, +2 halfspear, +2 large wooden shield, cloak of a thousand eyes (robe of eyes), 2 silver longswords, spider amulet, +1 quarterstaff, +4 skull hairtie of strength (+4 belt of strength, included in the above totals), knife, 2 throwing axes, 1 vial antitoxin, whetstone, waterskin, 3 candles, 1 week’s trail rations, backpack, 5 pieces of chalk, large sack, bedroll, blanket, flint & steel, bag of small gems and gold rings.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Nosh, male human Wiz12
Possessions: +1 whip of enervation (drains 1d6 Strength from target upon a successful hit), cloak of the Ravenwitch (wings of flying), +2 flaming polearm (can fire a 6d6 fireball twice per day), rhinoman staff (wand of telekinesis, 2 charges), yuan-ti +2 bracelet of intellect (+2 headband of intellect) with continual flame cast upon it, lenses of the otherwood, 3 vallis stones, deva sceptre of vallis use, silver ring of spell storing (magic missile, magic resistance, polymorph self), medallion of cancellation (rod of cancellation), speaking stone (sending spell to its twin), gold amulet of proof against detection and location, rod of retriever eyes (unique item, see below), rod of wizardry (unique item, see below), cookware, backpack, 9 candles, 4 large sacks, chalk, 2 square yards of canvas, 50 ft. hemp rope, 4 empty wineskins, 2 7-ft. lengths of chain (Sharien carries one for him), silver key, 3 stone tiles (all blank), 2 pieces of the Ravenwitch's jewelry, displacer beast tentacle blades, 2 displacer beast teeth, piece of Mrathrach’s mirror, medusa's dagger, Vladaam's pouch with 7 gems and round bits of gold, box w/music people, interesting-looking knife, manspider's dagger.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Sharien, female human Rgr5/Pal7
Possessions: green stone sword (+3 longsword, heal once per week), +3 chasuble of natural armor, amulet of freedom of movement, splint mail, dragonscale shield, iron spear, short bow, arrows, whistle (for Ael), necklace with egg symbol, 2 bone javelins.[/spoiler]

[Benly]

The bolded parts are all metal things, i bet between the party they have enough metal for at least one suit of fullplate which to me means that its rare and maybe expensive but not unobtainable for ECL 11 characters.

Full plate armor requires relatively advanced metalworking skill and designing it in the first place is something of a technological feat given the era. It's not just a question of "did they have enough metal", it's a question of "given the setting, it's unlikely that anybody has even thought of full plate armor".

That said, it should've been entirely possible for her to get something other than leather armor. "WHERE'S THE FULL PLATE" seems a bit off-base, however.

[Unbeliever]

It's funny, though, while the choices for feats, stats, and builds seem essentially random -- the Wiz's Int is kinda low, but maybe that's just what he rolled, although then his stat boosts should have gone into Int ... and, really, Ranger/Paladin?  -- they then have some crazily overpowered items for that level. 

I mean, they give the Wizard, one of the few guys w/ a solid set of classes (Wiz 12), a Ring of Wizardry IV (essentially), and a pretty badass stat-draining whip (sure, you don't want to get that close, but a freebie Ray of Enfeeblement is never bad).  It's just weird that the people who design the damn game seem to not give a shit about its rules, guidelines, wealth by level, or anything else.

[Shadowhunter]

To answer the topic in one word:

Poorly.