Author Topic: Best martial anti-caster build?  (Read 24778 times)

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2011, 08:22:13 PM »
This.

I believe that build is ilegal. The srd says:

A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If characters are allowed to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation.

Any kind of manifester can create a new power.


So by RAW only a psion could research extra spells from the already existing list. Your psychic warrior could research a new power, but not metamorphosis, wich is an already existing power.

And if you're allowing for creation of new powers/spells, then the psychic warrior's royally screwed when then the caster pulls out something even cheesier than polymorph/metamorphosis.


He names it warrior's metamorphosis, which is different than metamorphosis because it is a psychic warrior's power.

Done.

But seriously, that's all it takes. Add a few more alterations if you want, such as making it Touch, or making it a level 3 psywar power.

How far does it really need to go to be 'new'?
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oslecamo

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2011, 08:39:57 PM »
This.

I believe that build is ilegal. The srd says:

A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If characters are allowed to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation.

Any kind of manifester can create a new power.


So by RAW only a psion could research extra spells from the already existing list. Your psychic warrior could research a new power, but not metamorphosis, wich is an already existing power.

And if you're allowing for creation of new powers/spells, then the psychic warrior's royally screwed when then the caster pulls out something even cheesier than polymorph/metamorphosis.


He names it warrior's metamorphosis, which is different than metamorphosis because it is a psychic warrior's power.

Done.

But seriously, that's all it takes. Add a few more alterations if you want, such as making it Touch, or making it a level 3 psywar power.

How far does it really need to go to be 'new'?

That isn't the matter. The matter it's that your build is based on aproving custom powers/spells, and the casters/psions can play that game too.  

Your build just makes casters even more dangerous by allowing them to research their own custom cheesier spells.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2011, 08:47:08 PM »
This.

I believe that build is ilegal. The srd says:

A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If characters are allowed to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation.

Any kind of manifester can create a new power.


So by RAW only a psion could research extra spells from the already existing list. Your psychic warrior could research a new power, but not metamorphosis, wich is an already existing power.

And if you're allowing for creation of new powers/spells, then the psychic warrior's royally screwed when then the caster pulls out something even cheesier than polymorph/metamorphosis.


He names it warrior's metamorphosis, which is different than metamorphosis because it is a psychic warrior's power.

Done.

But seriously, that's all it takes. Add a few more alterations if you want, such as making it Touch, or making it a level 3 psywar power.

How far does it really need to go to be 'new'?

That isn't the matter. The matter it's that your build is based on aproving custom powers/spells, and the casters/psions can play that game too. 

Your build just makes casters even more dangerous by allowing them to craft their own custom cheesier spells.
Which they can do anyway.

In any case, it's no worse than taking EK (metamorphosis); you just have to spend XP and a power known to get it, rather than a feat.

It's fairly equivalent either way, and perfectly doable.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
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Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2011, 09:28:01 PM »
Why did the topic turn from posting mundane builds (per OP) to who's spell has the bigger penis?
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

JaronK

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2011, 09:30:29 PM »
I think the best way to take out a caster with a non caster is for the caster to never see you coming.  As soon as they know you're a threat, they can attack you with so many possible attacks that there's no way to defend yourself adequately.  So, what about a Necropolitan Rogue 1/Rokugan Ninja 1/Unarmed Swordsage X with Lifesight, Darkstalker, and a bunch of other stealth tricks?  One can also do this with a Factotum, but that may be too casty for your tastes.  On the bright side, a Factotum can dip Mindbender for Mindsight, which can be quite handy.

JaronK

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2011, 09:31:40 PM »
I think the best way to take out a caster with a non caster is for the caster to never see you coming.  As soon as they know you're a threat, they can attack you with so many possible attacks that there's no way to defend yourself adequately.  So, what about a Necropolitan Rogue 1/Rokugan Ninja 1/Unarmed Swordsage X with Lifesight, Darkstalker, and a bunch of other stealth tricks?  One can also do this with a Factotum, but that may be too casty for your tastes.  On the bright side, a Factotum can dip Mindbender for Mindsight, which can be quite handy.

JaronK
Diplomacy optimization. Do it subtly enough and they'll ask for you to come in.

Best when mixed with Perform (Sexual Techniques).
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Shadowhunter

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2011, 10:14:39 PM »
I think the best way to take out a caster with a non caster is for the caster to never see you coming.  As soon as they know you're a threat, they can attack you with so many possible attacks that there's no way to defend yourself adequately.  So, what about a Necropolitan Rogue 1/Rokugan Ninja 1/Unarmed Swordsage X with Lifesight, Darkstalker, and a bunch of other stealth tricks?  One can also do this with a Factotum, but that may be too casty for your tastes.  On the bright side, a Factotum can dip Mindbender for Mindsight, which can be quite handy.

JaronK
Diplomacy optimization. Do it subtly enough and they'll ask for you to come inside.

Best when mixed with Perform (Sexual Techniques).

Fixed that for you.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

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SorO_Lost

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2011, 12:13:16 AM »
I think the best way to take out a caster with a non caster is for the caster to never see you coming.  As soon as they know you're a threat, they can attack you with so many possible attacks that there's no way to defend yourself adequately.  So, what about a Necropolitan Rogue 1/Rokugan Ninja 1/Unarmed Swordsage X with Lifesight, Darkstalker, and a bunch of other stealth tricks?  One can also do this with a Factotum, but that may be too casty for your tastes.  On the bright side, a Factotum can dip Mindbender for Mindsight, which can be quite handy.

JaronK
Diplomacy optimization. Do it subtly enough and they'll ask for you to come inside.

Best when mixed with Perform (BDSM Techniques).

Fixed that for you.

Fixed that for you.
Helpless ftw ;)
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

SpoCk0nd0pe

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2011, 12:46:09 AM »
Do black dragon bite arrows work? 3d6 str damage at 26 DC will most likely render him helpless in one shot. Delay poison would defend the caster, its no wizard spell list though.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 12:51:42 AM by SpoCk0nd0pe »

Gods_Trick

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2011, 03:24:42 AM »

So sex beats magic?  :lmao

Hitting a caster with an arrow is a feat in and of itself. Every theoretical caster is statted as a raving paranoid, especially when CoP comes online. Casters, the class that has a Psyhic Hotline that wins.

Barbarossa

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2011, 04:05:00 AM »
I've been developing a character named Sinistar for quite a while now that's meant to defeat my brother's Incantatrix/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil monstrosity, and I've decided that there are only two sure things.

1) Death.
1) Taxes.
2) Immunities.

He's a Warforged Juggernaut, and I've been trying to make him immune to all forms of energy damage. His race (and that class) make him immune to a host of things including nonlethal damage, positive energy, poison, mind-effecting effects, and others. I've been trying to find ways to make him immune to every other element of damage, give him a way to block spells, and make him only fail saves on a one (and be able to reroll those.). Mystic Shield is an awesome spell to have as a constant effect on a character like this. It'll severely limit the number of spells that can be directly used against you, as it protects against all effects of 6th level spells and under.

Yes. All of them. You could even dodge the book-to-the-face-via-DM caused by using that to be immune to the wall of stone the wizard drops on you.

Mixster

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2011, 04:33:56 AM »
I've been developing a character named Sinistar for quite a while now that's meant to defeat my brother's Incantatrix/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil monstrosity, and I've decided that there are only two sure things.

1) Death.
1) Taxes.
2) Immunities.

He's a Warforged Juggernaut, and I've been trying to make him immune to all forms of energy damage. His race (and that class) make him immune to a host of things including nonlethal damage, positive energy, poison, mind-effecting effects, and others. I've been trying to find ways to make him immune to every other element of damage, give him a way to block spells, and make him only fail saves on a one (and be able to reroll those.). Mystic Shield is an awesome spell to have as a constant effect on a character like this. It'll severely limit the number of spells that can be directly used against you, as it protects against all effects of 6th level spells and under.

Yes. All of them. You could even dodge the book-to-the-face-via-DM caused by using that to be immune to the wall of stone the wizard drops on you.

A saint is a good start with immunities to three energy types.

A half Gold Dragon Sage is immune to Fire, Cold, Electricity and Acid IIRC.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2011, 04:44:06 AM »
Yes. All of them. You could even dodge the book-to-the-face-via-DM caused by using that to be immune to the wall of stone the wizard drops on you.
Just because you're immune to the spell doesn't mean you're immune to the spell's effects.

If somebody casts Summon Monster I, your face will still get covered in celestial monkey poo.

Why be immune to damage types?  Just go renegade mastermaker and set your HP to something where damaging you is an exercise in pointlessness.  Like, say, fifty thousand. 
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stranglebat

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2011, 05:02:32 AM »
Why dont you go a Factotum with a godly slight of hand check and sneak up and pop a portable hole in the wizards bag of holding. KERBLAMO

zugschef

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2011, 05:10:29 AM »
Why dont you go a Factotum with a godly slight of hand check and sneak up and pop a portable hole in the wizards bag of holding. KERBLAMO
wouldn't that be a suicide attack?

stranglebat

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2011, 05:50:25 AM »
Probably but who cares if the aim is to kill them not to kill them and live :P

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2011, 06:20:52 AM »
Portable hole + bag of holding would be, at best, a minor inconvenience.

Oh, look, fifteen damage.  Hello, there.

Or

Oh, look, here we are, on the astral plane.  There's nowhere to run now.
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StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2011, 02:23:07 PM »
I think whatever build you make, doing Hexblade 3 / (Ex-, if necessary) Monk 2 with it is a good chasis.  Mettle, Evasion, charisma to saves against spells and SLAs, and nice base saves, along with grappling ability if you find a way to get Antimagic Field on yourself.  If you don't care about Evasion, trade it for Spell Reflection and pump your touch AC (one of the few things monk is good for).  Go for the Steadfast Determination feat to use Con for will saves and never fail fort saves on a 1.

Beyond that youcan focus on hitting hard and first.  Solo's suggestion of an Imperious Command Barbarian (using Ferocity rage variant and Intimidating Rage feat!) probably being the simplest and most effective.  And of course the Mage Slayer line of feats is nice.

JaronK

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2011, 06:31:25 PM »
You could always be a Learnian Lumi, which makes you immune to virtually every way of dying (except the disintegrate spell).  So, then protect yourself against that spell, get a hard to block attack, and just keep hitting him over and over.  You'll need some method of teleportation to get out of whatever he traps you in, and you'll need Iron Heart Surge to get rid of any conditions he hits you with.  Then just keep hitting him so he can't sleep.

It'll be like this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y

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Re: Best martial anti-caster build?
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2011, 09:25:42 PM »
I think whatever build you make, doing Hexblade 3 / (Ex-, if necessary) Monk 2 with it is a good chasis.  Mettle, Evasion, charisma to saves against spells and SLAs, and nice base saves, along with grappling ability if you find a way to get Antimagic Field on yourself.  If you don't care about Evasion, trade it for Spell Reflection and pump your touch AC (one of the few things monk is good for).  Go for the Steadfast Determination feat to use Con for will saves and never fail fort saves on a 1.
This is here is a classic example of a trap.

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